This week we welcome amazing actor and activist Layan Elwazani into the fold to talk about what is happening in Palestine, how it relates to liberation movements in the US, and the complexities and utter simplicity of how we can engage, advocate, and help. Episode content warnings: genocide, mentions of suicide, police/state violence, terrorism
This week we welcome amazing actor and activist Layan Elwazani into the fold to talk about what is happening in Palestine, how it relates to liberation movements in the US, and the complexities and utter simplicity of how we can engage, advocate, and help.
Episode content warnings: genocide, mentions of suicide, police/state violence, terrorism
Follow Layan on instagram @layanelwazani
Follow us on instagram @wethepeoplepresent
Resources and action items on our Linktree
Cover artwork by Be Boggs
Music by Malaventura
Full transcript available HERE
Lyonel: We're We the People
Tina: And we're recording from the occupied territory of the Odawa, Ojibwe, Potawatomi people,
Dana: Or what you probably know to be Chicago,
Aja: And the Chumash, Kizh, Tataviam people-
Lyonel: or Los Angeles.
Dana: Guess what. We're all on stolen land. Take a second to learn whose land you occupy
Tina: And take meaningful direct action to decolonize and restore these lands to their rightful stewards.
Aja: Action Items and resources can be found in the link tree on our Instagram @wethepeoplepresent
(music)
Dana: We the people.
Aja: Are we the people?
Dana: That's why you're listening to in case you forgot, I'm Dana.
Aja: I'm Aja.
Lyonel: I'm Lyonel.
(Laughter)
Tina: I'm Tina.
Lyonel: Ah, we can always tell how generous we're going to be today, by how slow it takes us to
say our names, right? Go.
Dana: Now you go.
Lyonel: YOU go.
Dana: No, You go. (Laughter) What's up, everybody ? I'm going to start this off because I'm so excited. We have a guest with us-.
(Screams)
Tina: So excited!
Dana: My good friend Layan. And I was my Layan.
Layan: Hi!
Dana: She is I'm going to brag about her because she doesn't brag about herself. She's an incredible actor, writer, a justice seeker, a ferocious empath, in her words. We met doing a show called "We Live in Cairo". And before that, she was on the Broadway doing the band's visit. I am constantly in awe of her and I'm so happy that she's here. Yeah. So that's that's the that's the spiel. We're going to get into our Round-Robin now. And then we're going to talk about our bigger subject, which is why we have Layan on the show today. So-
Aja: Welcome, Layan!
Layan: Hi!
Lyonel: Yesss! We are so glad you're here.
Tina: Look at us, having guests. We have guests.
(Amazement of guests)
Aja: Oh, our Round-Robin today is, hot y'all. The question is: If you were an influencer, What would you be an influencer for? Lyonel?
Lyonel: I just got so nervous, oh my god.
(Laughter)
Lyonel: Woah-Ho-Ho. You set me up- SO hard. my eyes are bulging and I'm sweating. I would be an influencer of skin care. I hmmm... here's the thing, people always say black don't crack, but that shit cracks if it's dry. So I-
(Wheezing laughter)
Tina: You have an addendum to that.
Lyonel: OK, I shall not be the test trial version of what that looks like. So I do- I love skin care, y'all like, I exfoliate, I scrub, I do the masks, I do another coat. I just feel like skin care is you can learn a lot about good skin. Like if I'm on a date with somebody and I want to like, know who they are without asking, I'm just gonna like, look at what their hands look like, Imma look at that neck. I'm going to look at that forehead. And I'm not judging wrinkles, I'm saying like, 'cause I love smile lines, but I can tell when the shit's dry and when you don't wear sunscreen. So I would say skin care.
Aja: Me-OW!
Tina: Yeah. I second this, Lyonel. This week, like I had one skin care question and Lyonel came back at me with like a full regimen. He was like, "I want you to try this and then this and then this. And this is what this will do." And I was like, "OK, I guess like, I'm ready to be like, gorgeous now." Thank you, Lyonel!
Aja: YEAHHHH!!
Lyonel: Like, I wanted to, you know, to share her shipping information with me. I know when she started so I can hold her accountable every day to it.
(Laughter)
Lyonel: So that's where we're at.
Aja: A-mazing. How many moisturizer do you use at the end of your routine?
Lyonel: Daily?
Aja: Yeah, like morning routine.
Lyonel: Oh, and then the morning routine, three. I have a serum. I have a Vitamin C Serum and then I have a moisturizer with SPF included. So that's three. That's like ordering one drink but putting three shots on it.
(Laughter)
Lyonel: Tina!
Tina: Oh no. Aha- This was the question that I came up with. So I feel like every time I come up with a question, I don't ever have a good answer. Um, so I need to do better about that. But I think the thing I would jokingly be an influencer for is like watching the same episodes of TV over and over again- .
(Guffaws)
Tina: Because that's just like how I live my life. I've seen every episode of Bob's Burgers upwards of like 20 times. I've seen every episode of Great British Bake Off at least 50 times. I could tell you what everyone bakes. I could tell you who wins, who goes home. Like what? Who had a soggy bottom. I could tell you all of it, from memory.
(Laughter)
Dana: Tina can tell when you have a soggy bottom.
Tina: I know. It is my area of expertise, but it like- For real, for real, if I- I don't want to say like vitamins, 'cause I feel like that makes people think like I have a brand of vitamins that I use. No, I just mean, like I take so many vitamins on a daily basis that I fe- and I like do so many, like homeopathic remedies for shit that like that's what I know the most about. So I guess, like, I'll teach you how to make a ginger tea and which vitamins to take for which, you know, bowel ailments you have.
(Laughter)
Aja: I just want to say I really am enjoying the background music of your radiator-
Layan: (Laughing) I think it's MY radiator!
(Eruption of laughter)
Tina: I was like, "What is that sound?".
Layan: I'm like, sitting over here. I'm like "I haven't even talked yet. Oh my God. My radiator is- Oh geez."
Tina: Anyway, that's mine land. Layan, what about you?
Layan: Oh, my gosh. Well, first of all, you both have inspired me now, and I'm like I could have come up with a way more appropriate answer for this. Um, but the thing that I thought of is: if I was like an influencer for anything, I would want it to be something along the lines of like, ethical urbanization. Like, I'm very fascinated with urbanization in the way that cities are planned and created and naturally expand. And like the ways in which when urbanization happens and things expand too quickly, like things fall through the cracks, et cetera, and those tend to be like the most marginalized people around us. So I- uh, I don't know how it would be entailed or what it would entail, but it would be something along the lines of like "Creating city spaces that are safe for everybody".
Aja: Ohhh
Tina: Me and Lyonel all over here talking about our poops and our skin.
Aja: Thats our Podcast!
Lyonel: I'm over here like, talking about a date. And like, you're like, I want to change the world, like-
(Laughter)
Layan: And like we should have- we should have housing for every human person, and it makes no sense that people shouldn't have a roof over their heads. But you know what ? (Singing) Here we aaare!
Lyonel. America.
Dana: (Singing) Americaaa
Tina: I hate it here.
Dana: (Sigh) I might be the anti influencer. I don't know what that would look like, but I would sure try.
Aja: You're just shitting on products all the time.
Dana: Who?? ME?!? I would just point out how awful capitalism is and how fucking terrible everything is. I'd have, like, one follower.
(Laughter)
Tina: It would be me. I would be your one follower.
Dana: Yeah. (Laughing) Tina would be my follower.
Layan: You're yelling at capitalism, I am THERE.
Lyonel: You're like an influencer critic.
Dana: Oh- ooooo that's what I could do! I could- but then I feel like I would just feed into my pettiness and I try not to do that. But I, I don't know.
Tina: I LOVE petty Dana.
Dana: Yeah I know. She's- she was, she has been out in the year 2020.
Lyonel: I pour into her.
(Laughter)
Dana: So. Yeah that's me- Maybe. Yeah, yeah, yeah, critique of influencers. That's probably where I would be at. And they would tell me I'm shaming them all day and I'd be like "Well stop being a fucking shitty human and I wouldn't have to shame you all day."
(Laughter)
Dana: (Sighs) AJA?
Aja: Oh you know, I thought so many things and they're all bad things. It's like if you need someone to go to to learn how to kill your plants, I'm your girl. If you need to go somewhere to find out how to lose everything, (Laughing) can't find my keys, can't find my phone, can't find my whatever. I constantly am asking Josh where I- where things are and they're usually right in front of my face. So that feels like something you would need in your life? I would be that person. Maybe it would be like-
(Uproar of laughter)
Lyonel: Chaos. Influencer of Chaos.
Aja: Maybe to make yourself feel less uhh absent minded. That's what my influence would be.
Dana: Yeah, like you would like, have pictures of you with like, glasses on your head and say,
like, "I couldn't find these for two hours" or-
Aja: Yeah. Like today: I was running around and I was like, "Josh, where's my phone?!?" And he looked in one place and was like, "Oh, my gosh Aja" and it was on the charger, like, right next to me. And I was like-.
Dana: Thank yooouu!
(Laughter)
Aja: Mmm Thank you. Ah. So there you have it.
Tina: We did it.
Aja: Oh, great Segway! Uhhhh
(Laughter)
Tina: I mean, if you think about it, all of our answers, are like kind of about helping people like Aja's is helping people feel better about their absentmindedness. Dana's is about helping people be secure in their individuality. Mine is about helping people poop. Lyonel's is about helping people's skin and Layan's is just like, oh, we should help all people.
(Laughter)
Tina: People deserve housing and basic necessities.
Lyonel: But it kinda comes from this HBO doc- not to get like too crazy off left, but there's a show, Dan, I was telling you about called "Fake Famous" on HBO, if y'all haven't seen it. They like take three people essentially who are NOT famous and they build them into becoming huge influencers.
Layan: Oh no...
Lyonel: And it's fascinating their conversa- I know, right? This shit's wild. And they made two quotes that I was like, yo, what? the fuck? It was like a million people have a million followers. So does that make all those million people famous? And a hundred million people in the U.S., this is all U.S., have over a hundred thousand followers. Does that make them famous? And like this idea of like what is famous now because it's like fake and you can buy bots, but if you hit this caliber, you're now famous? It was really fascinating. And they took three people and like did the whole process with them.
Dana: Yeah, that that one dude, I loved who was just like, I don't want to do this. This is fucking stupid. This is fake as shit. I don't want to do this anymore. And I was like, that- that's me! I love you!
(Laughter)
Dana: Like I would- I would very much like take, I don't know, a hundred real followers over ten thousand fake ones. I was like, yeah, no, what are we doing ? And we're just being like vehicles for capitalistic bullshit, Like-
Aja: CAPITALISM
Dana: Yeah! That's all that this is! And it's just like the one the one thing that I find that is really heartwarming to me, and I think I've mentioned this before on the podcast, but like, how the younger generation are able to see themselves, especially like, you know, people like me who are Arabs who actually get to see other Arabs embracing who they are and embracing their culture and embracing all this shit like Debka, TikToks and like stuff like that. That's fucking cool. And I think that visibility would have taken a lot longer, like me. It would have taken a lot longer to see this stuff. And now kids get to see it on their phone, and that's pretty cool. Yeah, that's a positive. But- .
Lyonel: To spin us into today's topic. I do want to say this in terms of this conversation and what you just said, it's really interesting what a society people do when they base their vulnerability and the protection of government. So meaning like we are leaning into the government to dictate like, hey, you set up social media, like you fund companies that pay into me having more followers and you pay into companies that pay into to me, being an influencer, essentially saying, like, if it were wrong, you would stop it. And there's a disconnect between, like, furthering myself as a human and believing that a structure is there to bounce off of, like an adult or a parent. And it's not in place correctly. It's actually funneling into my own trauma and making money off of it. And I think that's- that in itself is a wickedly fascinating concept. Destructive, but it's like, it feels a lot about like what we're going to talk today.
Layna: Mm hmm.
Dana: Yeah, that seems like a Segway way to me.
Tina: Yeah
(Laughter)
Dana: Um. We are shifting to- Layan is is our guest today because we're shifting to, um talking about Palestine and I've mentioned this before. I am Palestinian part Palestinian, part Jordanian. Layan is also Palestinian, and we are both activists in both, you know, American politics, but also in visibility of Palestine. And I think a conversation that I have frequently with a lot of people is: what happened? Where is Palestine today? I feel so lost. I don't know where to go or how to start this conversation. And sometimes the opposite of that is, you know, fuck Palestine.
(Laughter)
Dana: BUT. We're not going to feed into that. We're going to feed into the opposite. And if you are here, I hope you are here to listen and to learn and to possibly hear a side that you haven't heard from yet, and I think this is a really interesting. I think this will be interesting because my friends here are all people who are marginalized in the states, who want to learn more and have confessed to me that they're here to learn more, but they maybe don't know a whole lot about it. So I think this is a really cool way to start this conversation, because I think a lot of people are in the same boat. So it's a long winded way of saying: "Welcome to the introduction of Palestine!".
Layan: Buckle up, Buttercup!!
(Uproar of laughter)
Tina: Buckle up, Motherfuckers!
Lyonel: Can I start by asking either of you, both of you, what- what is going on ? Like, when you say Palestine, just on a bare bones level, like what is happening in Palestine ?
Layan: Well, there are four major things to know in this moment. The first is, when we say Palestine, we are talking about Palestine, and also what I'm talking about this group of individuals, Israel as well, because there are Palestinian citizens of the state of Israel. So there are Palestinians currently living under blockade in the Gaza Strip, which is the westernmost portion of the land that we're talking about. They have been living under a military blockade. No one in, no one out for, what is it, 15 years? Dana? We're on 15, 16 years? I guess, 2004, yeah.
Dana: Sorry, I was drinking water. Yeah. Haha
Layan: Yeah. Aha, Sorry everyone, threw her under the bus!
(Laughter)
Layan: There are Palestinians living in the West Bank, which is the eastern small portion of that land that we're talking about. Who have been living there and are either from there or were expelled to there in 1948 when the state was created. So those are Palestinian people, living in the West Bank. Some of them are from that land and some of them are actually from the land we're talking about. That is Israel. And then there are also Palestinian citizens living in Israel. And the fourth- the fourth is Palestinians living in diaspora. That includes one and a half million Palestinians still living in refugee camps, as well as millions and millions of Palestinians and their descendants living around the world, of which Dana and I are both.
Dana: Yeah, I think that's roughly seven million, and maybe more now.
Layan. Yeah.
Dana: But the Palestinians and their descendants.
Layan: So that is sort of what is happening when we say what's happening in Palestine and what is happening actually to Palestinians. The reason that I think it's confusing is like you just heard me say that and you're like, wait, what? There's like four different places, what's happening? And it is confusing. And I think a lot of people get confused and they hear one thing or another. And then you get the the demonization of Palestinians, as like, a terrorist group en masse. And then people just sort of check out and don't know that there are still millions of people living in, you know, camps.
Lyonel: You know, I feel, yeah, I feel like I made a face just now. And it was definitely like, "wow". But I think what I was "wowing" was more that, there's so much of Palestine that is stripped away, in my opinion. Like every time I'm- I'm I listen, I hear about Palestine. It feels like it's one singular group of people. And therefore, like that group of people is allowed weirdly, to be like given different kind of opinions or like ostracized in a way. So it's like hearing you say so many different groups, it's like, it's the way which I think about our country right now, where we isolate certain groups of people out to the side and we are like, oh, well, like we can feel this way about this amount of people because this is what they look like, so now we can be like if they look like this, separate them. So like that just blew my mind. Like the breakdown of that.
Layan: Yeah. It's really incredible that I think when it's easy to speak about people as a monolith, Right? I think that when we're talking about groups that are marginalized and also when we remember like we are all- actually, I don't want to presume this, are we all Americans? Talking?
(Murmurs of agreement)
Layan: OK, in America specifically, you know, America from a political perspective does not have allies. America has interests. And it has always been in America's best interest to be allied with the occupation and the supporting of the monetary support of the state of Israel from a military capacity. And so I think the reason a lot of Americans don't know these things is because we're not supposed to know these things.
Dana: Yeah.
Layan: And with- With the insurgents that has been Palestinian activism with one of the only good things that has come from social media, which is documentation of daily life of Palestinians and how unbelievably hard the struggle is. I think we are now seeing a turning point, or at least, I hope, a turning point for a lot of- a lot of American progressives across the spectrum, regardless of your race, regardless of your religion, there are people all over America that are standing up for the rights of Palestinians and turning this into more of a rights based approach. So often people just talk about the geopolitical aspects, "oh this happened. Well, this happened. What about this war ? Well, what about this accor-" Stop. There are one and a half MILLION Palestinians still in refugee camps. Why are you not talking about those people ? Why are you talking about being right ? We have to focus on these people. We have to focus on the Palestinians that have to put in four extra hours every day of traveling to and from Israel with their work permits through the apartheid wall or through the "Separation Wall", as it's referred to. We have to stop allowing for the unfair treatment of Palestinian workers, Palestinians who go to Israel, work in Israel, get taxed in Israel, and then have to go back to Palestine and pay the Palestinian Authority there.
Dana: And to not get vaccinated on top of that.
Tina: Yeah, Jesus.
Layan: And to not be vaccinated on top of that, because the argument is: one country shouldn't be responsible for another country's vaccines. But the state of Israel has been occupying Palestine since the '67 war and from a legal perspective, is responsible for the vaccination of Palestinians, especially when you have so many Palestinians who are FORCED, essentially, to work in Israel. And the thing is, is you have so many people mixing together from a work perspective and a culture and travel perspective that it actually is in the best interest of all people, all Israelis, you know what I mean? Like to not vaccinate Palestinians and then have the Palestinians come into the country. You are you're putting so many old elderly Israelis at risk for no reason. So that's sort of the the long and the short.
Dana: Yeah. So I think what's difficult to grasp a lot of the time is exactly what Layan said, it's the geopolitical aspect gets wrapped up and we focus on that and and we forget that these- these people are oppressed. They don't have rights. They, if you literally just like had a camera and like, like Mayor, we talked about Mayor, which was a documentary about the mayor of Ramallah, was a very, very good documentary. Just basically just showing the life, showing the life of what it is to be a mayor of Ramallah under occupation. And that is something that is simply just never shown.
Aja: And we'll link up the documentary. So if you would like to. Highly recommend this excellent documentary.
Dana: Yeah, it. We get so wrapped up in the politics of it that there are so little like documentations, like The Mayor, like like the mayor documentary of just what it is to be oppressed and what it is to be under occupation and what it is to not have rights. And why is it okay? Why is it politically okay for this group of people to be treated that way? Like just from a basic empathetic point of view, why do we view this as okay? And I think that's a bigger question, too, that we can talk about, but part of it is even up until recently, even the progressives and the liberals in this country were politically tied to Israel. And because of that, they thought it social- or rather political suicide because, you know. But senators and House of Representatives, they are in it to be re-elected, right? Marc Lamont Hill said this incredible thing. He said, you know, they are thermometer's and not are- thermometer's and not thermostat's. They're taking the temperature of the room, but they're not changing the temperature of the room.
(Agreeing hums)
Dana: Even like, you know, even up until recently, up until our squad, right up until, you know, Jamal Bowman and and Rasheda Thalib, like people like that. Now we're trying to to like, now politically as a country, we can see that it's not as much of a political suicide to side with Palestinians.
Aja: Well-
Dana: But why? Why- not as much, but let's be honest, it still is. Why, historically, why was it that it was that way for so long? And that's a bigger political question than we have to ask ourselves, too. But that's where we're at now, we are in. We are gaining, you know, social progress. Political progress is not a straight line, you know? And so I say this with hesitation, but, you know, Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren, people like that were able to say Palestinians deserve rights and they weren't politically destroyed for it. So that's.
(Laughter)
Layan: And 15- and let's be very clear, 15 years ago, they would have been. And and that's the thing that I'm so excited about that we're talking about. And people are open to it across the political spectrum. People are open to it. And and, Dana, I also want to chime in on what you said. And it's not like, it's not, a it's a matter of semantics. It's not even a matter of, siding with one or the other, that's not what- that's not what we're saying, we're dealing with the reality of the fact that we have one land and we have this, these people, are there. Okay? Me, personally, and many of the most progressive frontline activists on this issue are not saying: Only Palestinians, and we're all going back and then everyone else who is Israeli can't live there. No, we're saying: everyone lives there right now.
Dana: Right.
Layan: And only some of those people have the rights that they need to have and are, and are deserving of, for being human beings. And there are so many Israeli organizations on the ground continually advocating for justice for Palestinian people because they see that justice for Palestinians means justice is for everyone in the land.
Dana: Is for everybody. Right.
Layan: There are some incredible organizations that are doing that work.
Lyonel: This is so interesting because it's it's blowing my mind how close Palestine, Palestine is and the issue going on there and Black Lives Matter going on here. And this idea of, and you said it earlier, Layan, about power dynamics and the idea of like who has a gun and who doesn't and even having to wait four hours to get into a country. There's a human, it's like a human rights issue is really what we're boiling down to, like the root of everything going on is just dismantling of an entire human race. And if we're able to colonize them as "less than" then, like we win. Like, it feels like it's a huge conversation going on right now about right and wrong versus just basic human rights given to a group of people.
Aja: Black Lives Matter is- became global. At least in 2020, quickly. I mean, by the end of the summer, there were protests all over the world where Black Lives Matter and I don't see the same for Palestine. And I think one of the- from The Mayor documentary, one of the most impactful quotes that I wrote down was The Mayor saying "The worst thing is that we think the whole world can't sleep because they're worried about us. Please man. Man, nobody is." And that was like the most heartbreaking thing. Is that, like these people, like your people are in Palestine, just like thinking like people have to care about this, right? And they don't. And the way politics has been structured, it's like now, not only are people not worried about it, they are actively like, whether intentionally or not, prejudiced against Palestinians.
Tina: They're like literally invested in continuing that oppression.
Aja: Mhmm.
Tina: Financially in the military, like it's it's deeply entrenched in the way, not only this country set up, but SO many powers around the world are set up.
Dana: Three point eight billion- in 2019, 3.8 billion of US tax dollars went to funding the Israel military.
Layan: Zero dollars, zero goes to Palestine. We need to frame that for every year as well.
Dana: Yeah, yeah yeah.
Layan: It's it's around, what, eight million dollars a day ?
Dana: Yeah.
Layan: Eight million US dollars a day goes to fund the military occupation of Palestine, which is the longest military occupation in the history of the world.
Lyonel: A day?!
Layan: Mhmm. A day. And Americans think it's not- it's not our problem. But it actually it is very much and is absolutely, very much our problem.
Dana: Your tax dollars, your literal tax dollars are going to that.
Lyonel: It's not only our problem, it's our destruction. It's our doing like-.
Layan: It's our responsibility.
Lyonel: Correct.
Layan: Yeah.
Lyonel: I didn't know that.
Layan: Yeah, and and I think it's really important to frame for any listeners, like it's really easy again. Ugh. This is what Marc Lamont Hill and Mitchell Plitnick were talking about.
Dana: I love them.
Layan: That they did a great job of discussing how it can be easy for progressives right now to blame Trump as the, um, what do they call it, the boogeyman, okay? Trump did not do this. This has been slowly happening over time under every president since since the inception of what is currently this divided one state and then two territories. And so when we're talking about fighting for justice for Palestine, we need to remember that there has never been justice for Palestinians. There is no like going back, because back is bad. All of that is not good and all of that will not take care of everyone that is currently on the land because the only justice Palestinians have ever known was before the inception of the state of Israel. So, you know, there is no going back because right now everybody's there, everybody is there. And we need to focus on just like caring for everybody. And the fact is, Palestinians are not cared for under the law.
Lyonel: So my question would be, what is our job? And I mean that, yes, to care for people and to care about this. But like, what do you all feel is our job next ? You know, as Americans, as people, as part of this is it a part of the voting system? Is, you know, am I lifting my question correctly? I want to state on this podcast, too, that like, I am, I know my ignorance and my shortcomings, and like, I appreciate you all taking space because like you said, you all are not a monolith. And so the idea of like you all speaking, there's work that needs to be done as an advocate on my part. So I guess my question is what what is the job ? To, you know, to move, to move the, to move along with-.
Dana: a needle forward?
Lyonel: A needle forward, thank you.
Dana: Yeah, I mean, the voting voting aspect is huge. Finding the, you know, the local politics and finding the people that are willing to stand up for Palestinian rights and are willing to be open and vocal about that, because that is it's huge. I also think the recognition of, how do I phrase this? This incredible thing happened when Ferguson happened, where Palestinians reached out to the activists on the ground and they like gave them tips and there was this conversation that was happening. And it made me think about how, so often we think we have to choose, we have to choose these fights, right? But in reality, if we're just fighting for the equality of everybody, that's what the fight is. And I think the recognition of that and to not make it about fighting for one rights over the other, but rather just the international fight for equality. And to understand that, and to speak up for that, and to equate like to understand that the Palestinian got this way because of colonialism, much like a lot of the rest of the world. And the problems that they are facing are certainly problems that, like the U.S. face, because of colonialism and understanding that in making the connections between the two so that it's not like you're fighting for that versus this, but rather we're all fighting for the same fucking thing. We're all fighting for the equality and the rights for everybody. No matter where you are. And I think, like, fine, like honing in on that to me is something that I wish more advocates would do. That's my piece. Did that make sense?
(Murmurs of agreement)
Layan: I need to I need to echo that, Dana, because and also that's a really good question, like, oh my gosh, what do we do ? It can be so easy to be like, oh, new problem that I didn't know about. Fuck, who do I follow on Instagram ? What do I listen to ? How do I be active ? People are already doing the work. Now it's up to you to seek out those individuals. Find that, find what's happening there and see what you can do on the ground. There are so many grassroots organizations advocating for the rights of Palestinians here in the United States. And you know, something that I always advocate for. I'll just be the nerd of the room, y'all.
Tina: Yes!
Layan: Read a book.
Tina: Haha! Yeah,
Layan: And what I mean by that is read the books that make these connections. The one that I always tell people to read is I brought them up. (Singing) Since we brought up BLM!
(Laughter)
Layan: Freedom Is a Constant Struggle.
Lyonel: Ugh.
Aja: Yass!
Layan: Ferguson, Palestine and the Foundations of a Movement.
Dana: Our Queen!
Layan: The reason this is so important is because, we can't just work on the freedom of Palestinians. We have to work on the freedom of the black community here, the freedom of the indigenous people on this land and the freedom of Palestinians. It is all the same struggle. And when we come together in solidarity, when Palestinians and people from here, the land of the Manope, get together and say, how are our struggles the same? How do we honor this land? How do we as people in America right now, honor the indigenous land that we are on? Because doing that is also helping Palestine. And understanding that all of those things are connected and being willing to accept that they are connected and continually advocate for justice of any marginalized person. And also, yeah. The Black Power movement and Palestine have always stood in solidarity with one another.
Dana: Yeah.
Layan: My man, my Muslim brother, Muhammad Ali, like he was someone who stood up for justice when he was demonized for it. I will remind you that when Cassius Clay converted to Islam, and chose to be called Muhammad Ali. He was demonized, but when he stood up for Palestine, he was canceled. Why? Why is that? We have to get to the root of that. And I think right now people are having that conversation and we're talking about it and we're figuring it out and we're going, okay, like, what do we do next? But at least we're there. That is as progressive as we've ever been.
Tina: Yeah!
(Laughter)
Layan: So, like, sit in that feeling of like, oh, what do I do? And just like, you know, read the books, like the people on the gram, look it up, go to a webinar, listen to some podcasts, anything you can do that helps to enrich your mind, because that, I think, is the thing that ultimately influences and mobilizes the soul.
Tina: That part.
(Yeahs and laughter)
Dana: What are the other questions? Yeah.
Tina: Oh, well, just in response to that, because I think it is so important to like, frame these things in context of how they're related to each other and not as isolated movements and not as isolated, like incidents of the consolidation of power affecting people on a deeply human and horrifying level. But I also want to encourage people to think of like to not need to contextualize the thing to which you have no like real, like, tangible connection in the framework of something that affects you or affects people, you know, to care about it. Like, I want to challenge people to, like, care about what's happening, even if it doesn't look anything like what's happening to people you know or what's happening to you, you know? Like that's, I think, the next step of empathy that we, as activists and as humans and as a global community need to achieve in order to, like, really help each other in a meaningful way. Because, like, there are certain things that I will never understand and I can still care about the fact that they're happening to people and that they're causing pain to communities. So that's like the context of how things are similar is so important to understand, because it is what, it tells us a lot about the world that we live in and about how it's not actually as complex as we think it is. About how people are using power and weapons, using it in the same way constantly to hurt people. But like, it's so complex, it's such a complex thing. I just wanted to, like, challenge people to be open to thinking about these things from a bunch of different levels, I guess.
Aja: Yeah.
Lyonel: Well, that's interesting, too, because it's just also like empathy comes back to bias and like, there is a bias that is built, especially thinking about it, again, in Palestine, like there's a bias and it's built around how people can feel about the Palestinian history. So therefore, I'm allowed to feel less for this group. And I love that you brought up that point, because I think that's also the burden, like the keeping the conversation prevalent and keeping the conversation at the forefront of the table versus putting it in the back, I think is so important. Because it's I hate the erase- The erasing of it, I guess, is what makes me mad. And like I am upset for everything going on, it's like this silencing. The people, speaking up for this and just making it as if it's not important. And the thing is, it's JUST as important, like because I also hate when we level out feeling things the same way, right? It's again, it's like that "All Lives Matter" thing. Like right now Palestinian lives MATTER because they aren't mattering, as opposed to just like human empathy. Yeah, I feel bad for your fucking house that burned down two years ago. But right now like that Palestinian's home is burned down right now. And I have a fucking water hose, so I'm going to go, you know what I mean? It's like. Ugh. Like. The idea of conversation being pushed towards this is where I hope that we move as people, like keeping conversation on it.
Dana: Yeah, I mean, and to respond to that, Lyonel, there has been so much fear about speaking about this, simply just because people don't have the knowledge. Or they're scared because we have, Arabs in general have so often been viewed as terrorists, and because of that, there is a fear of talking about us. There is. There is a fear of talking about us, there's a fear of talking about Palestinians because of the fact that we have, in the American media and in American politics, we have very often been shown as terrorists. So there's there is an inherent fear, I think, that people have to push past and to educate themselves and to become a part of the conversation. So, yeah.
Aja: I have a question: Why are we giving so much money?
(Laughter)
Aja: Like why? What? What gain is the US getting from that?
Layan: Have you ever looked at a map of the world and seen where the United States military bases are?
Aja: No.
Layan: That's a good place to-
(Laughter)
Layan: To send the send the viewers, I should say.
Aja: Great!
Layan: Because, you know-
Tina: I'm gonna do it now.
Aja: I know.
(Laughter)
Layan: Understanding US imperialism, is, I would say, the key to understanding that ally-ship the United States created an ally-ship with the, at the time, government of the state of Israel and has continued to foster that relationship.
Tina: HOLY SHIT. Sorry, I just- haha.
Aja: Same.
Tina: Continue.
Layan: Yeah. So um (Laughter) If you, if you've ever been like, what's wrong with the world? It IS U.S. imperialism.
(Laughter)
Layan: Essentially, when empires stop being a thing, and when the League of Nations happened and then they were like, okay, let's become the United Nations, colonialism never actually ended. That never stopped. The Ottoman Empire fell. Is this the most is this like a huge, just tangent?
Everyone: No, no, no, no, no.
Dana: No, we need to talk about nineteen hundreds and the Ottoman Empire falling, because that that has a lot to do with how the establishment of Palestine and Israel and all of that.
Layan: Yeah. So the Ottoman Empire falls and certain parts of what we're considering, I guess the Middle East and North Africa. I call it Southwest Asia and North Africa. Certain chunks of land, you know, went to different imperial powers basically to like take care of them. And the British Mandate for Palestine happened, which is 20 years. And the British essentially controlled the land that we're currently talking about. This chunk of land that attaches Asia to Africa. So basically-
Dana: Not Aja, but-
Aja: Heyy! Not me!
Layan: Oh, yeah! Sorry, not Aja, Heyy AJAAA!
Aja: Heyyyyy!
Layan: But ASIA to Africa
Aja: Yes, my sister.
(Laughter)
Layan: So I think, I think that that is something to be evaluated. That is always something to be evaluated and something just for people to know, you know? You ever, like, learn something and you like you see something and you when you see it for the first time, you're like, oh, that's a problem. That's not good. I would say US imperialism is definitely a really, really, you know, key factor. The Philippines, Puerto Rico.
Dana: Yeah.
Layan: Hawaii, the United States itself. Like it's um yeah, it's pretty daunting. Yeah. Does that answer your question, at all?
Aja: Yes. And it gives a really great. It, like points me in a direction of like how to even learn more about it, which is like, in terms of what we're talking about with educating ourselves like that, is big.
Layan: Can I shout out this one? Can I shout out this for the listeners?
Aja: Shout out as many books as you want!
Layan: Yeah. At the end of the podcast, just a ten minute list of me, being like "Read THIS book, I'm eighty five years old".
Lyonel: You are an influencer of plugs. For those of y'all at home, Layan has been lifting up books and presenting them as she talks. It literally looks like Vanna White, but like not Vanna.
Layan: But you know what? I- First, I love that you're saying that. I feel very lifted up by that. Sometimes I feel very ashamed of being like, oh, I have a book on that. And people are like, why do you read books?
(Laughter)
Layan: This book, Justice for Some by Noura Erakat is an incredible look at the history of the law and how it has functioned around this issue that we're calling Palestine. And how Palestine has actually sort of constantly slipped through the law because first the British and then now America continually uses its veto power on the United Nations Security Council to block anything from a legislative perspective to create a Palestinian state and because that's been going on for so long and now on top of what we had, which was the state of Israel, the Gaza Strip and the West Bank, the government has continually annexed more portions of the West Bank and are still doing it right now.
Dana: Against international law.
Layan: Against all international law. But because Palestine falls in a crack of international law. Which, this book makes you understand every single juncture, every point in time in which it was further and further wedged down sort of in this world of lawlessness. By examining that and seeing how that government has continually generated more and more settlements within the West Bank, meaning they create these settlements, you know? Villas, okay? And then people get to live in them and are protected by the government. They send a tank, they send the army and they protect those settlements that are illegally built within chunks of the West Bank. If you look at a picture of the West Bank right now, you would see all of these weird clusters. There's almost like little chunks. And what that is, is this thing called Area A. Now, this is a very long winded way-
(Laughter)
Layan: Of saying that these chunks in the West Bank are the only chunks that are actually operated as Palestine, even the parts in between those chunks are operated and occupied by the Israeli army. So if you want to go from Nablus, which is where my family is from, very proudly from Nablus, just outside of Nablus, Beit wasn't. if you want to go from there and you want to drive to Ramallah, you have to drive on roads that are occupied by Israel. To drive from one Palestinian town to another Palestinian town. And it's like we know why military occupations happen, it's a slow erasure and slow pushing of indigenous people out. And when I- when you bring up that most people who are like, well, I don't know how to feel about this conflict. When people hear that, they're like, oh, that's, that's definitely not good. And it's like, yeah dude, not only is it not good, but you have Palestinians and Israelis alike saying, I don't want that to be the reality.
Dana: Yeah.
Aja: Yeah.
Lyonel: Its like Redlining a city.
Dana: Yeah, yeah, yeah Its Like Redlining! Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. It's exactly that.
Aja: Yeah.
Layan: And then I like I start to figure- I start to think about how the children. I mean, it's like heartbreaking, you know? The parallel that I always think about, which continually just baffles me, is, you know, here in the United States, how people protest the school to prison pipeline and how it is a VERY real thing. And we've had scientists be like, no, this is definitely a real thing. We need to stop doing this to children. What do children learn when there is a cop at the door in school? What do they learn when they're walking through a metal detector and being treated as criminals? If you go to Palestine, you go to PLACE, you go to you go to Hebron and you see the continual dehumanization of children and mothers and families. Who are treated every day just going about their lives as though they are criminal, as though they are unwanted on their indigenous land. It is like one of the most baffling things I've ever seen. And so the fact that people are at least talking about like indigenous struggles here, on occupied land here in America and now are equating it to that struggle in Palestine. Like you said, Tina, I appreciate it. You're like, oh, shouldn't have to happen to you for you to care about it.
(Laughter)
Layna: But that's just one more way that I always draw this parallel, which is like understanding that like that is the life for everyone there. And we're just sort of like letting it happen and funding the occupation that's doing it.
Dana: Yeah. I mean, yes, to all of that.
(Laughter)
Dana: And to to answer, I think, to simply answer your question, Aja. Oh, it goes back to what Marc Lamont Hill said about how America doesn't have allies. It has interests.
Aja: Yeah.
Dana: It's interests and their historically there were interests that Israel could provide for America that continued the partnership that they have and, that's kind of how it is and all of what did you call it Layan? South Asia?
Layan: Southwest Asia, Baby!
Dana: Yeah. Fuck "The Middle East", Southwest Asia.
Tina: South Asia is my, my people still.
(Laughter)
Layan: You're like, listen, the regular South Asia is mine!
Aja: A-See-a.
Dana: Yeah, yeah. What other questions?
Aja: Oh, had one!
(Laughter).
Aja: I lost it.
Lyonel: Give me me another one! Throw another one at me!
(Laughter)
Aja: Marc Lamont Hill was just fired from CNN, for speaking out against what The Israeli occupation is doing so, and the reasoning behind that is because there's been so much flare up about that being anti-Semitic. So we wanted to briefly talk about that and get it out of the way because it's kind of a different conversation, but it is part of the conversation.
Dana: We had spoken about how, you know, citizens of of United States are generally fearful of talking about this subject for a variety of reasons, and one of those reasons is being called anti-Semitic. And the two have- I should plug this book, this book is really good.
Aja: PLUG IT!
Dana: And it is by Marc Lamont Hill and his partner in writing the book. Layan, you remember his name?
(Laughter)
Layan: It's Mitchell Plitnick. He's an incredible activist here in the United States. And also, I think he's the let me see here, Mitchell Plitnick, I- YESS! Is the he worked for Jewish Voice for Peace for some time and also for B'Tselem here in the USA, which is one of the leading organizations that advocates for the rights of Palestinians and Israelis on the land we are talking about. It's an Israeli organization that fosters. Yeah. Palestinian excellence.
Dana: Yeah, the book is great. And it's a good start to talking about why for so long progressives and liberals are so hesitant to speak about the rights of Palestinians. And a large part of that, as we saw with Ilan Amar, my Omar sister, not really, but I kind of want her to be.
(Laughter)
Dana: As we saw with Ilan and other- with Mark, with other people who talk about Palestinian and Palestinian rights and how the immediate response is anti-Semitism or- and I want to say that I, as an activist and I'm fighting for all rights and the discussion of the rights of Palestine. I have had this conversation where all I am speaking about are the rights of Palestinians. That's it. That's all I'm talking about. But the response and the response that has been, historically, a response that really kind of shuts people up, is telling that other person that they're anti-Semitic. Because they are criticizing Israel. But the conversation talking about parallels that conversation is a lot like when we're talking about America and we're, we're criticizing America and the response to that is, well, you're and you're not patriotic. You don't love this country. And the two are not eq- (Laughs) they're not the same conversation. Like we're not. We're not. Not once did I even say anything about Israelis or Israel itself. The discussion constantly is just these people need help. They need help. They need rights. They need to not like- It's really hard not to get emotional about this, because day in and day out, they're just treated so poorly and. To to want to to advocate for their rights and to have the response be: well, you're you you just don't like these other group of people. No, that's not it. Like and that hurts, too, because it's just like, you don't fucking know me, you know? Like, I'm like- I fight for equality for everybody. Sorry, I did not mean to do this. (Laughs)
Aja: Don't be sorry, oh my gosh.
Tina: Yeah, don't apologize.
Dana: It's REALLY, really difficult because that type of response shuts, shuts the other side up and. Anti-Semitism is a really terrible problem, and with the rise of authoritarian leaders, it has become, you know, the resurgence of it is awful and it's something that we absolutely have to look out for. So history doesn't repeat itself, but we also have to differentiate what it is and fighting for rights for all. That's- sorry. (Laughs)
Aja: No. Don't be sorry. Ugh-
Dana: That's my long winded answer to that question, I guess? I don't even know if I answered it, but those are my thoughts.
Layan: Yeah, I basically agree with everything that Dana said. It is really easy to use- to weaponize anti-Semitism. Against people who are speaking for the rights of Palestinians, and I think that is one of the reasons the Palestinians have been subjected to the longest military occupation in the history of the world. It is really easy to weaponize, when in reality, Palestinians are deserving of life. And Palestinians need to be centered. Like we talk about centering the black experience when we're talking about policing, what we're talking earlier. Like we talk about centering indigenous experiences across this land and how you don't look to the American government to solve indigenous struggle here, it has to be solved usually a lot from within and THEN legislated, right? So. When people weaponize that against me, which, of course, it's happened for my entire life, which is very hard because I have family that's Jewish. I have family that lives in Israel, I have family that lives in Palestine. I think- I think it's really fucked up that there are so many and, and mind you, I'm not a Jewish person, so I don't like to speak about what "is" anti-Semitic, what "isn't" anti-Semitic. Like you, you have the right to not like anything someone says about you or the people that you feel kindred to, connected to. That being said, why is it whenever someone says: oh, we need to end the blockade on Gaza. Someone says, oh, you're an anti-Semite. All that does, is focus attention on someone who is advocating for rights of Palestinians and not focus attention on people who are literally generating despicable acts of violence and of destruction here, in the United States against Jewish people. And the fact that we are spending all of this time. Oh, I'm going to search. I'm gonna search Instagram. I'm going to find this way and I'm going to comment on Marc Lamont Hills Instagram. I'm going to tell him that he's an anti-Semite. Well, maybe that amount of maybe that amount of of care should be taken to actually ensuring that we are dismantling anti-Semitism across the world. Because it is rampant. But to equate that with the struggle for freedom for Palestinians is like, you're not focusing on people who don't have rights right now. That's all we're talking about. Palestinians deserve to walk on their land. Palestinians are deserving of the right of return and Palestinians are deserving of liberation and are deserving of equal protection under the law. I don't know how that could possibly be considered anti-Semitic. And also, there are- that mean I have two best friends who are who are Jewish, who passionately advocate for the rights of Palestinians passionately. One who is an Israeli Jew of Arab descent and one who is an American Jew who has family in Israel. And so when people say they're anti-Semitic and that they are self hating, somehow I also feel very pained for them because that is an experience that no one should have. Especially when it comes to advocating for equal protection under the law.
Dana: Yeah, the question you know, the question often is- and the question that we have to ask ourselves, because I've had this conversation with people who have circumstantial equality or circumstantial views on equality. And when they're arguing with me about freeing Palestine, they don't even see Palestinians as people. And they don't equate the equality, the fight for equality that we have here with the fight for equality, there. When we say we want rights for Palestinians, it doesn't mean that we're taking away your rights. It does not. The- when we say black lives matter, it does not mean that your life matters any less. It is just centering the argument so that these people can get, you know, basic rights so that they can live like a- ugh. (Sighs) It's as simple as that. It is, is the. Centering the conversation about one group of people does not mean that it is taking away from anybody else, and that is something that we have to talk about all the time. But just with activism in itself, you know, if you center the conversation about one group of people does not mean that anything else is any less true or that we're taking anything from you.
Layan: Palestinian lives matter.
Dana: Yeah.
Layan: Not More. We're not even saying as much. We're just saying at all. Just like at all.
Dana: At all. And that's a conversation like having that conversation with Americans, too, is like, how do you not see the parallel? I do you not see that??
Layan: Well, because Hamas.
Dana. Right.
Layan: Because terrorism.
Dana: Right.
Layan: And then we're back to the square one. Right?
Dana: Right.
Layan: You know? You know, this might be a fun thing for listeners who know, OK, I'm going to play a game since we're all, like, vocal, I want you to close your eyes. I want you to imagine. The first thing that I say. A terrorist. Open your eyes. What was he wearing?
Tina: I'll go. I wearing a white t shirt and jeans and Converse.
Lyonel: Wearing camouflage with a gun strapped to his body and like those like fucking motorcycle glasses that are orange on his forehead.
Layan: Mm hmm.
Aja: I actually saw a scene from Joseph Gordon Levitt movie that I got real mad about, where they- I mean, I can't even remember what it's called, I was so mad about it. But where they were positioning men of color as terrorists and like, forwarding that narrative, but it was made like two years ago. Or maybe last year.
Layan: And for any listener out there who also happened to imagine like a dude wearing like a- a white scarf that has like a black checkered pattern on it, it's kind of like houndstooth, but it looks really scary. It's called a kafia. It's a traditional Arab scarf and it's a symbol of Palestinian resistance. The first time that people saw that scarf was during the first intifada, when Palestinians were like, enough is enough and they took the streets and it did get violent, period. And, you know, that scarf became a symbol of resistance to some people and then here in the United States, we use that as a costume piece.
Dana: Oh, yeah.
Layan: And we started showing people younger and younger, fighting for justice who are throwing rocks at literal tanks. And we're calling those little kids terrorists. And it's really funny when I think about, like, you know, and we're talking about imperialism. And imperialism cannot happen without guns and without violence, that has always been the case. That was the case to create the United States. That was the case to enslave human beings and bring them here from the entire continent of Africa. And we have to remember that right now, and we're talking about occupation, we are talking about some people in full military gear with automatic rifles and tanks literally driving through towns. And then we're talking about some people who are literal children. Some 17 year olds throwing rocks and slingshots, and what those kids are doing is illegal and what those kids are doing. Those are the pictures that end up on the news here. And so we equate this terrorist narrative to Palestinians because it benefits us as the United States, right?
Dana: Right. It goes back to our interests.
Layan: It goes back to our interests. And so, so often, when people are like, you know. What about what about like. These anti Palestinian narratives, we really need to understand how deep that goes and how, like the treatment of like Muslim people and Arab people and Swapna people en mass, that demonization and perpetuation of like, terrorist narratives is rooted in anti Palestinian racism.
Dana: Right.
Layan: So, you know, it's like a sad thing, but it's also like now we know and we can recognize that and we can all actually understand and unlearn those things. And be able to, like, educate ourselves and call people into the conversation. Because I think the problem with this is so often people are like, what side are you on? And it's like, Homie, no, we gotta have a talk, because right now you and I are on the same side. You and I are in a bar on the east side.
(Laughter)
Layan: Like having a beer. We're not fighting.
(Laughter)
Layan: But, you know, it's so easy to make this about, oh, let's have a fight. I'm right. You're wrong. You're right. I'm wrong. People are suffering. People do not deserve to suffer, especially in the place that we call the Holy Land.
Lyonel: You make me think about- I think it's really important when you meet people to have, to understand, like what you're having a conversation over. Like, I think questions are important. Like when you want to know something, don't ask what, ask why. You know? And if you want to know where something is, you ask where, not what is it. And I think. In listening to this today, it's like, are we talking about humanity or are we talking about tradition? Like that isn't for like, y'all to answer. But I think, like so many times, you all are meeting people with humanity. Or we meet people with humanity, and they follow it up with what tradition has been, what always is, and we can't have the same conversation if you're trying to tell me a pattern and I'm trying to show you heart.
Dana: Yeah, that part. And maybe it's you know, if you find yourself in this conversation with somebody and maybe it's leading with that. Maybe it's clarifying what the conversation should be as opposed to what it has been. And what we get caught up in, versus what it should be now.
Layan: Yes, it has been pick a side. There are sides, rah, rah, rah, rah- And it's really like, okay, let's deal with what's in front of us now. Yes. Learn the history, learn the history! Read all the books, do it. I insist! But also what's happening in front of us right now? Because we're talking about something that happened in nineteen sixty seven and there are still one and a half million people who are living in refugee camps. Let's deal with that. And not- not worry about all of the stuff that you and I, we could have a geopolitical talk all day, but it doesn't change the fact that we are fighting for rights of human beings. And I think that is ultimately the shift that's happening right now. What we're talking about right now is important because to be frank, there are so many people that say this. One state to state, three state, twelve states. I want every human being there to be treated with equal protection under the law. And Palestinians must be afforded the right of return. Also, say goodbye to the apartheid wall and the occupation of Palestine.
Aja: Yeah
Lyonel: That part, that part sis!
Dana: That that, all of that!
Layan: You know? But so often people are like, just end the occupation and we're good to go. And it's like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
Dana: That's not going to solve anything.
Layan: And we have to remember that there are millions of Israelis that are advocating for the same thing.
Dana: Yeah, there are a lot of people on our side that are there that are critical of Israel and critical of Netanyahu. And a well, they should be. You just said not sides, but I want to- I wanted to express that there are a lot of my Israeli and Jewish people, friends, loved ones that are absolutely fighting for us. For sure. And I want to, before- I just want to simply say that, like, you know, the reason that I'm writing the pilot that I'm writing, the reason that I want to advocate for stories that are told, is because, like we talked about with representation with Tina, how we talked about empathy, there is a strong push politically to not have our stories told because they know that it humanizes us. And that means that we have been dehumanized, whether it's conscious bias or unconscious bias. In this country, we have been dehumanized.
(Murmurs of agreement)
Dana: And that's something I think a lot of people should sit with too, because it certainly deals with the activist work of finding what your unconscious biases are. But it is it is the reason that we need to tell more stories, more Palestinian stories, specifically. So that you can we can show ourselves and show that we're not a monolith, that we're not terrorists, that we're not, you know, not all of these things that the media has has forced you to believe that we are. And it also shows that there has been a strong political force to NOT have our stories told. So something else that you can do is advocate for stories like ours to be told so that we can open the empathy door for the public so that more people understand what you know, what the issues are.
Tina: There's so much more I feel like that we could talk about, but I feel like that's an amazing place to just like leave people who are listening. Like, we'll put resources in our linktree on the podcast, linktree, which is linked in our Instagram, @wethepeoplepresent of like links to all of the books that we brought up today, links to Mayor, the documentary that Dana talked about and that-.
Dana: That Layan told me to watch. Sorry.
Tina: Hm?
Dana: I have to- I have to give her credit. Layan told me to watch it.
Tina: Oh hell yeah! Look at that! Fucking world. And some podcast episodes too, that Dana had sent us earlier in the week. Just like for more context and to get some different voices saying a lot of kind of the same, the same stuff and just kind of adding more context and more depth. But yeah. Thank you. Oh, thank you so much.
Dana: Yeah. Thank you Layan!
Aja: Amazing!
Layan: Thank you for having me. It has been an absolute pleasure. I appreciate your patience with my continual sentences. I tend to speak with only commas and get very enraged.
(Laughter)
Dana: Welcome to our podcast!
(Uproar of Laughter)
Tina: Have you MET us?
Lyonel: Thank you all for tuning in. This is We The People, where we like to keep it fresh, funky and always unfiltered. Till next time!
Layan: Oh, my God, my radiator's going crazy. Oh, I'm so sorry. It sounds like there's like an old man and some baked beans over here.
Tina: Its background music!
(Humming)
Lyonel: Yass! Baked-
Lyonel & Aja: (Singing) Beans!
(Laughter)
Lyonel: We're so hungry.
(Laughter)
Dana: So hungry. For baked beans.