This week we're talking human connection, the many forms it takes, and the impact that the pandemic and technology have on the ways we communicate and relate with one another. Episode content warnings: mental health and anxiety
This week we're talking human connection, the many forms it takes, and the impact that the pandemic and technology have on the ways we communicate and relate with one another.
Episode content warnings: mental health and anxiety
Follow us on instagram @wethepeoplepresent
Resources and action items on our Linktree
Cover artwork by Be Boggs
Music by Malaventura
Full transcript available HERE
Lyonel: We're We the People
Tina: And we're recording from the occupied territory of the Odawa, Ojibwe, Potawatomi people,
Dana: Or what you probably know to be Chicago,
Aja: And the Chumash, Kizh, Tataviam people-
Lyonel: or Los Angeles.
Dana: Guess what. We're all on stolen land. Take a second to learn whose land you occupy
Tina: And take meaningful direct action to decolonize and restore these lands to their rightful stewards.
Aja: Action Items and resources can be found in the link tree on our Instagram @wethepeoplepresent
(music)
| Lyonel: What's up everybody?? |
| (Uproar of Greetings) |
| Dana: What's up everybody?? Let's get ready to rumble!! |
| (Laughter) |
| Lyonel: Welcome to We the People, I'm Lyonel. |
| Aja: I'm Aja.. |
| Tina: I'm Tina. |
| Dana: I'm Dana. |
| Tina: Hey, we did it! |
| Aja: We nailed it! |
| (Laughter) |
| Lyonel: Aja, I love this- Aja is modeling. So, if everyone can close their eyes and listening. |
| Dana: (Sings) She's a moooodel. |
| Lyonel: Imagine a white, fitted, knitted, sweater. Trimmed in black horizontal stripes. She looks like a zebra sitting in a chair. That's it. |
| (Laughter) |
| Aja: First of all, this is a large boys like cold weather undershirt that I got at the thrift store. |
| (Laughter) |
| Dana: And you're wearing swimmingly. |
| Lyonel: Yeah, swimming in well, swimming and wellness. |
| Aja: Wealth and wellness, bye Whole 30. |
| Lyonel: Uhh Bye, Hold 30. |
| A: Byeeee. |
| L: I was gonna say that my take aways from Whole 30 were that I was incredibly bloated for most of it. I had a lot of memory fog and I honestly had a lot of I don't know, it's like a lot of digestive issues. But I will say I've been sleeping for eight to nine hours since about day 12 and I haven't slept that long since, easily May. |
| Tina: Dang. |
| Aja: Wow. |
| Lyonel: Truly, Its great. |
| Dana: THAT, might be worth it. |
| Lyonel: 100 Percent. |
| Aja: Speaking of May, our round-robin this week. It's not really speaking of May. |
| TIna: (Singing a la Britney) Its Gonna Be Mayy... |
| (Laughter) |
| Aja: We wanted to quickly say what the last movie we saw in movie theaters. I had asked Josh because I could not remember last movie we saw was Invisible Man. |
| Tina: And was it good ? |
| Aja: Yeah, it was great. I don't love Elisabeth Moss, but I really like the movie. |
| Tina: Yeah, that was a movie. I do this a lot with movies that I like, want to know what happens, but I know I'll never watch. |
| (Laughter) |
| Tina: I looked up the plot. I looked up the plot on Wikipedia and it sounded very interesting. |
| Dana: But it's too scary. Too scary? |
| Tina: Yeah, I just like because I live alone and like I don't mind a thriller, but I'm not going to watch one in my apartment, by myself, which is how I spend all my time. |
| Dana: Same. Samesies. I don't want to tempt nightmares and my brain is a dickhead, so. |
| Tina: Yeah. |
| (Laughter) |
| Aja: Well, I think what's interesting about invisible is I can't do scary movies. I hate them. I walk into a room and Josh is there and I'll scream. |
| (Laugher) |
| Aja: I did that this morning. I walked in the bathroom and I did know he was in there and then I was like (Screams) and then he walked. When he got done in the bathroom and walked out, I screamed again. I was like, "Oh my God, another person in this house?! WHAA??" I'm easily scared. Anyway. But for Invisible Man, even though the plot of a lot of scary movies and like thriller movies isn't realistic, like I was like, "Well, I mean, there's not going to actually be an invisible man, so I think it can handle this one." The logic wasn't sound, but I could handle that one. Dana ? |
| (Laughter) |
| Dana: Yeah, Tina and I saw Cats. |
| (Laughter) |
| Dna: It was our last I think it was. Yeah. Our last one of our last movies that was in the theater. I got drunk and I left to pee and then I came to the bar to get more drunk and they said, "You can't bring this into the theater." And I said, oh no. |
| (Laughter) |
| Aja: You said "Watch me!" and then you chugged it, and then walked in with it, inside your belly. |
| Dana: So I sat there at the bar drinking it and then was talking to the bartender and in true, Dana, fashion just kind of got lost in conversation with people. Ah, conversation. |
| Tina: Dana was gone for like a full half hour of Cats. |
| (Laugher) |
| Dana: And then I came back in and it was basically the credits. (Laughs) |
| Tina: But like, she, you came back in and you were like, "Tina, what did I miss ?" And I was like, "Basically, nothing has happened since you left. In this movie." |
| (Laugher) |
| Dana: Ahh, So good. |
| Aja: (Chanting) Butt Holes! Butt Holes! Butt Holes! |
| Tina: Yeah, I wish. Release the butthole cut!! |
| Dana: Release the buttholes, Release them. |
| Aja: Give me that butthole!! |
| Tina: Truly, I have watched it four times since we saw it in theatres, Dana. |
| (Laugher) |
| Lyonel: CATS?!? |
| Tina: So I can't stop watching cats with people. And I've never watched it sober. So. |
| Dana: You can't you can't. |
| Lyonel: Just every time I think about cats, though, the thing that gets me is I don't understand how you put a Cat skin on a cat. Like the cat's wearing the fur coats took me out. Like. |
| (Agreements) |
| Lyonel: Yeah, that's like me, showing up in human skin. Yeah, yeah. These cats have real hands?? It was just like-. |
| Aja: I just think- I didn't watch it, because I couldn't and I didn't want to and I certainly wasn't going to pay money to see it. But I think what weirds me out is and maybe we've talked about this before, that like the whole concept of cats is a suspension of disbelief in the play and like the costumes and like how they create cats on stage fully knowing they're humans. And then you take a movie and you try to make them actually look like cats. And it's like it just felt like a disaster. |
| Dana: Cause it was! |
| Tina: Well, it's like it was inherently theatrical concept of all fucking time. |
| Aja: Of ALL time. |
| Tina: And like the key to the show on stage, which I'm also not a huge fan of. |
| Dana: No. |
| Aja: NO! |
| Tina: Is audience participation and interaction and like you don't have that with a movie. It's the Tom Hooper thing of like, I got to make this gritty and realistic. As opposed to like honoring the fact that it's a musical and they're already singing. So it doesn't have to be realistic. |
| Aja: No, there's nothing about it. It's supposed to be realistic. |
| Tina: Yeah. |
| Aja: I mean, aside from the emotions, but like-. |
| Dana: I used to joke that, like, the realistic version of Cats would be an hour of me on stage, just like knocking things off the stage. |
| (Laughter) |
| Tina: I would watch that! |
| Aja: Pooping in a box and then running as fast as you can!! |
| (Laugher) |
| Dana: And you'd wait until three a.m. and then I would run- I would dart across the stage. |
| Aja: I would- I would watch that play. I want to see that play. |
| Dana: I kind of want to make it now, you know? |
| Aja: I'm down. That can really easily be a Zoom Play, you know, as much as I hate Zoom plays, but that would be a very successful Zoom Play. |
| Dana: Um, Lyonel! What was the last movie you saw? |
| Lyonel: I saw Us. |
| (Gasps and amazement) |
| Lyonel: I saw it twice in the movie theater. |
| Dana: That's a good movie! |
| Aja: Yeah, that's a good last movie to see in theatres. |
| Lyonel: It was real, REALLY good. I know this isn't the last movie we saw in a theater, but I was just want to say, last night I watched the documentary on Britney Spears. |
| Aja: How was it?? |
| Tina: I DID TOO! |
| Lyone: You did, too?? |
| Tina: Yeah!! |
| Lyonel: It's amazing. I feel so awful for her. |
| Dana: Me too! |
| Lyonel: I didn't realize how much I needed to understand her like I haven't worked with. |
| Aja: Dark stuff. |
| Dana: Oh, my God. |
| Lyonel: Put this in perspective: Her and Beyonce are about the same age. Beyonce is worth 400 million dollars. Britney Spears is worth fifty nine million. Britney Spears is one of the most ICONIC celebrities of our generation, Right? People make so much money off of her. Beyonce has made so much money for herself. And you just watch a dad who took his child, made money off of it and continues to make money off of her. She just got used by the industry. It's really great and heartbreaking all at one. |
| Aja: Ugh, yeah. I can't wait to watch it. |
| Dana: And they they made it seem the way that, like, society will move on because we can spend so much time on this. But the way the society dealt with mental health specifically with her, like shaving her head, there was like a tweet that was like the more the older that I get, the more I am inclined to just walk into it hair like a haircuttery and just fucking shave my head. Because some days it's like it's just like that. Like it's like some days are just at the- And they made it seem like what's wrong with Brittney ?? |
| Lyonel: Correct. |
| Tina: Well, cause she did something with her body that wasn't for our consumption. |
| Dana: YEAH!! She was sick of it! |
| Lyonel: It was OUT of our consumption, in a way, like it was us being so consumed with her that she, like, went crazy. Like we, we drove her crazy and then, like, it was worth more money to watch her fall apart than it was to put her back together. |
| Dana: But it was also iconic. It was like, fuck you, I don't want to be your symbol for sexuality anymore. I'm going to cut off my hair and not even blink twice about it. And it was like, fuck, yeah. Like it was almost like a moment of like- for me, looking back at it, it's a moment of strength. Like I think it's a moment of strength of of, you know, separating what she may have been dealing with, like in terms of mental health. It was it was a moment of like, fuck you, like, FUCK you. |
| Lyonel: And like super small, one thing, I don't wanna give it away, but one thing I think was great is people how just like. It's might be great to talk about human connection and like really communicate with people. But like, she was framed as being crazy. But really the day that she fucking went wild with that umbrella was the day that she tried to go see her kids. And Kevin would not let her see it. And she had just lost custody. And she was in the car at a gas station with her cousin and all of these reporters. She always wanted the reporters to leave her. The reporters storm the car. They were. "Britney, let us ask you a question!" They wouldn't leave her alone on the day that she was like, get out. And so she just was angry and like, hit his car. And like, I'm like, you know, what? If I got my kids ripped away from me and the husband wouldn't let me see them and I had 20 cameras going off, I would be angry too! |
| Dana: EASILY! |
| Lyonel: Hit your car to get the fuck away from me, too. |
| Dana: Yeah. |
| Aja: You're lucky it's your car and not you. |
| Dana: Yeah! |
| Lyonel: Thank you! |
| Aja: Yeah. |
| Lyonel: It was really interesting, like how they framed and flip that on her, that said... |
| Aja: Quickly, before we jump back, before we jump into today's topic, did we want to spend any more time talking about us? The last movie you saw in theaters? We kind of like glossed over that. |
| Lyonel: Ehhhhh, Thank you Aja. Us. I saw Us twice because I think that there were just so many hidden messages in the movie. The movie was so BRILLIANT. With how it was depicted like the overall arc and story that America IS a horror story is also why this was a great horror movie. But it just had so many levels like. I could break it down for weeks. Even like watching how, like Lupita chose to walk like a roach, like the animals that they kind of mimicked and so her, her tether was based off of a roach, which is one of the longest lasting things to survive everything in the world. |
| Aja: Yeah they'll survive forever. They're indestructible. Essentially. Unless you like, step on them. Or poison them. |
| Tina: I remember seeing that and like I was thinking about that movie nonstop for weeks. I, like, kept going down Internet rabbit holes of like. "But what does this mean?" And like the like, I couldn't stop reading stuff about it. I couldn't something that I LOVED, I loved it. |
| Dana: It was bizarre with that movie because I normally am scared. But there are movies like thrillers that are really cerebral that kind of supersede the, for me personally, supersede like the scary visceral stuff? Even though it was definitely scary. But this kind of walked the line between the two, that it didn't incite so much fear that I couldn't miss the message of it. |
| Lyonel: It was a play on Scary Movie, though, like what is scary was the truth of it versus the scary being, the horror. Like. |
| Dana: Yes. |
| Tina: Like, who is the actual villain, too? Like, who is the the big scary person in it? |
| Lyonel: The person dealing with trauma or the person who like has come out of it. |
| Dana: Mm hmm. |
| Lyonel: Oof, it was bomb. |
| Dana: Yeah, so I wanted to. I came up with this idea for movies because I miss movies. Well, it's an experience that I really, really miss. I miss seeing movies in the theater laughing and crying and reacting with people surrounding me. So then I just thought, well, what are the other things that we can talk about that are pros and cons with the human experience right now and what we're going through? |
| Aja: Mm hmm. |
| Dana: But I certainly, movies are something that I deeply, deeply miss. So that sent me like thinking about what are the other things that I miss? What are the things that are, I guess we can talk about that first. What are the things that we desperately miss? |
| Lyonel: I actually think this is a great Segway into our conversation today on human connection, because there's something about being in a movie theater with other humans, experiencing something that has been created for us to visually take in. That I think we are missing right now in the world like that is a form of human connection and sharing that we don't have. Like, I know every Tyler Perry movie that I see or like any movie, like when I go to a movie and it's black antagonist and a black protagonist and a black movie, it's not uncommon for you to hear. Like, "I know that's- Oh! Don't do it!" Like, I love that feeling at a movie theater. If I know it's a black movie, where the people are in it are black. I'm not surprised when I hear sound and like that is an interesting experience in a movie theater. That I don't expect to see if I see like a Katherine Heigl movie, where its just like, her. |
| Aja: KATHERINE HEIGL?!?! THATS WHERE YOU WENT?? |
| (Uproar of laughter) |
| Lyonel: Yeah, after the Britney Spears doc. I know, what a name to pull from! |
| Dana: But like, somehow that was the perfect example. |
| Aja: Oh, I mea, you're right. No one was like, "Girl, take that dress off!!" No one said that. Everyone was like, "Oh, how pretty. Look at all those dresses.". |
| Tina: But in their head. |
| Aja: In their heads. And I think like, seeing the connection, like I saw different movies with different groups of people like you know, and being able to experience that with someone else in real time where you have to put your phone up, well, you don't have to, but everyone I know puts their phone away and doesn't take it out until the movie's ever. And if they do take it out, I tell them to put it away. I'm that mom, like (Under breath) "UGH, we're in a movie theater!". |
| Dana: (Also under breath)Put your fucking phone away! |
| Aja: "Put your phone away, It's so rude! |
| Lyonel: That's so rude! |
| Aja: But and also on top of that, the connection to the movie itself, because at home there's a rare time that I don't look at my phone during a movie or a TV show when I'm at home. Because it's like I'm in my house. It doesn't matter. So taking it's taking away the experience of going and secluding yourself away from the rest of the world to have this experience with other people, people you know and people you don't know. So that's a great line. I miss being. |
| Tina: So Dana sent us, or recommended to us in our text thread a while ago to watch on Hulu, In and of Itself, which is a recording of a theater production that happened in New York, a one person show. And I don't want to say too much about it because you also just like. Everyone, watch it. It's really great. Cathartic. Just like really I think it really speaks to the idea of human connection because it's so intimate, it's so much about the connections between people. But at the beginning of the like, it was recorded with the purpose of being released on streaming. So with the intent of having people watch it in their homes, but there's still an announcement at the beginning to turn off your phone and to like, you know, silence any devices, which is inherently, like, theatrical thing, a thing that you hear in the theater. Because, you know, the idea is like you don't want to disturb other people, but the fact that it was still included, I was like, oh. And I turned off my phone and I watched this whole thing without looking at my phone. And it was- it was just really. I feel like that is something that I want to move forward with, is like treating, you know, the consumption of art or artistic experiences with the same reverence in my own home as I do, you know, with other people, because it's like not just having respect for other people's experience of the piece, but also having respect for my own experience of the piece. |
| Dana; Yeah! |
| Tina: So I don't know that that was just something that I learned about myself that I. Turn off your phone when you watch something, if you can. It's really it was really great. I really was glad that I did that. |
| Aja: Yeah. Help your own attention span and ability to absorb information. |
| Dana: Yeah! You just miss so much. You miss nuances. There's so much that you, yeah. You miss if you are staring at something else. |
| Lyonel: There's a meme I saw that was like "Hmm. What movie am I, what soundtrack am I going to put on while I text" |
| (Laughter) |
| Lyonel: Yeah, well I think this is so. Y'all are making me think about a point I was having the other day thinking about human connection or social distance and everything that's happening and is it helping us? I have realized I thought I was just an asshole, slightly. |
| (Laughter) |
| Aja: Sorry, I know, that wasn't funny. |
| Lyonel: Yeah. I'm like the king of turns. I feel like I just I pull the rugs out on myself all the time. So where are we going with this one? |
| Aja: It's funny because you're not an asshole. |
| Tina: No, not at all. |
| Lyonel: Thank you so much. Because I am. Let me read y'all the exact numbers. This is live, in the moment. I currently have 16,377 emails not read and 214 text messages unopened and 42 voicemails. |
| (Gasps and shocked reactions) |
| Tina: WHAT? That is making me physically ill to think about. |
| Aja: Yeah, my whole body just tensed. |
| Dana: I'm gonna throw up. |
| Lyonel: That's why I believe in social and mental health. I talk to my therapist about this, but here's the deal. Here's the skinny. I DO look at my messages like as best I can when people message me, but. Then I was like, why don't I, like, do messages and like Instagram, I have like 30 missed messages and I think I have gained a rebellion to social media in response to human connection. What do I mean by that? Having a roommate and my roommate and I are talking I'm not going to text. I'm not going to break up our conversation in text. If I'm on the phone or face timing someone, I'm not going to stop what I'm doing or like think about the message. And if I'm exhausted, I'm not going to respond to these messages. Unless, I mean, I can kind of scan and see if it's like, hey, answer this. But in general, I'm I just feel rebellious to like being subject to this technology instrument. And what I feel like I've learned through right now is. We need less human connection, we need less. We need quality, not quantity, when it comes to human connection. And I'm finding myself diving into the depth of connecting with people versus the need to connect so much, so often in so many different strings that actually is so taxing. And I feel like I've always done that. So like, yes, I should respond to these messages, but I feel like the reason I'm not is because something internally in me is rebelling to feeling beholden to this fake human connection that I've been forced to create in my world because of social media before the pandemic. |
| Aja: Technology. I mean, technology has made it possible for people to contact you in 20 different ways all at the same time. Like I mean, that's a great point Lyn. I keep my phone on silent and I have four years. Cause I'm like, I don't want my phone to tell me when to check it. I mean, I check it enough as it is, but like, that's what- I miss calls. I miss texts. I mean, I don't have I'm like inbox zero kind of kid. I don't I don't have very many of anything, or I have anxiety. |
| Tina: Same. |
| Dana: Samesies. |
| Lyonel: I aspire. |
| Aja: But that's one of the reasons that I turn- I keep my phone on silence because like if I want to put my phone in the other room, I don't want anything. I don't want to be the kind of person that, like, my phone goes off and I'm like, I got to look at it. Who is it ? What is it ? What do they say ? Is that the thing ? Is that a work ? Is it a friend ? Is there what ? Like. And that I think that's a really good point about the quality of human interaction or human connection. I was just watching High Fidelity, the series last night. |
| Lyonel: (Whispers) So good. |
| Aja: Yeah, and there's an episode where it's like that she's Zoe Kravitz's character ends up at like a social media influencer party and everyone's on their phone the whole time. And it like, gave me anxiety just to look at it. Like, that's not interaction. That's not connection. Y'all are just at a party taking pictures for social proof that you're like a good person who people should follow and buy stuff from. And that's so, so far from where we where we originated in, like only knowing a small circle of people that were immediately available to us because they lived in the same place or were part of your family. And now we have access to millions of people at any given moment. |
| Tina: Yeah, well, I think, too, like because we I mean, our generation generally is like conditioned to have access to so many things at once and like feel I mean, I don't know about y'all, but sometimes I just feel a responsibility to like, be connected to people and things because I can and not for any other reason. Which is like incredibly exhausting, especially for me because I'm like so introverted, like being around people is exhausting to me already and like, you know, carrying on conversations just for the you know, for the hell of it is like a hard thing for me to do as a person. But I found that because I, you know, I am alone so much of the time, which, like for me, works just fine. For me, it's actually like kind of a great thing. Like the I have to be so much more intentional about how I engage with people in general, but specifically via technology and social media. Because that's the only way I have to communicate with people now. So, like. I have, I mean, through like this whole, you know, COVID nightmare and the the isolation of that, I feel like I have my ability to connect with people in a meaningful way and not just for shits and giggles way. Via the channels that we have is growing so much. And I am really interested in how people are stepping up to use what we have available to us now to like continue the kinds of conversations we had been having before, you know, about like communal experiences of art. You know, it's hard to make them great, but the ways people are like innovating to like, you know, use what we've got to try and replicate that experience of like something that people can share even when they're not in the same place. |
| Dana: Yeah, I feel like the biggest lesson that I had learned from all of us is that social media interaction does not even come close to human interaction. And our efforts to make it so neve- we'll just never live up to what it is to actually interact with human beings and being in the same room with them and it's strengthening echo chambers and strengthening your like rarely getting another side of something. So it's also strengthening your confirmation biases of like what you think and it's actually adding to the divide that we have. So it overall is just like, for me, human connection is suffering during all of this. |
| Lyonel: Because I think it's also putting. It's putting like a measurement on quality of people, is what I don't like, like it's putting measurement on what accountability looks like, it's putting measurement on like what integrity looks like, in my opinion, right? |
| Dana: What do you mean? |
| Lyonel: The idea of how readily available somebody is with social media? Like. I text you, you didn't text me back or like we have text conversations all the time. You're such an accountable friend, or like any time I need you right now, you show up, you have so much integrity. But it's social media has given us a quick fix with human connection and like specifically to the pandemic. It's like there's such a quick fix. Like I can instantly get it. I can instantly reach you. But it's what the pandemic has done, in my opinion, has slowed things down. And like you call someone on the phone and like think about the people that you actually talk to on the phone and like why you can talk to them, but maybe you can only text other people. And so. For me, it's just like a really clear lens on like what kind of space and what kind of people I need to actually fill up my jar, versus like how many people. It's just it's like (Snaps) it's instant and it's quick and it's it's a surface level or not surface. It's not saying you don't need the friend, but it's- I don't know. I guess I'm finding that there is a really interesting need of the people that I can pick up the phone and talk to. |
| Dana: Yeah, it's it's interesting when I see, like, a post of somebody who has a bunch of followers and like if it's a surface level post, if it's just like a nice photo or whatever, all of the comments are just emojis, for DAYS. And it's just like, what?What are we doing ? (Laughs) Do you know I mean? |
| Aja: Yeah. |
| Dana: Like it's kind of just like what what's the? In those moments, I'm always like, what's the point? |
| Aja: Right. Well, yeah, OR even the idea that, oh gosh, so many thoughts. I wrote down so many things just now about everything y'all were saying. Well, because, like for me, social media isn't about connection. It's like a checklist. It's like, did I post about the right things and did people see it? But then knowing that like that random self, the first selfie I've ever posted of myself got triple the amount of likes that any other post, especially ones about anything social justice related, or antiracist related. Like those get like a fraction. So then what's the point of the social media anyway? Like if I'm wanting to use my "platform" of, you know, twelve hundred people that care what I think. Like. If they're not actually going to care about the things that I care about, but they're rather going to be more inclined to pay attention to a picture of myself that I post, like, what's the point of that? Kind of to what you said was what sparked for me, Tina, when you were talking about, I feel like I should be interacting. I feel the same way. But it's also like, why do we feel that way ? Because we have access to that? I have access to three thousand restaurants at any given moment, but I don't feel the need to patrón them all. I could steal stuff from any store just because I COULD, but it doesn't mean that I should. I could talk to a hundred people a day, but I doesn't mean I should. So like, what is it about connecting with people on the many areas that you can connect with people online and in person and whatever? Like how does that become a "should" for us versus all the other things we could do but know that that's not a requirement ? |
| Tina: I mean, I think to speak to something that, you know, a couple of y'all had said earlier about just like how much technology and social media has gotten in our way, in general in communicating with each other, like since before the pandemic. You know how you're with people and you're on your phone. Like, I feel like that has carried over into the pandemic in kind of like the opposite way. We're like, now that the technology and that mode of communicating with each other is all we have. Like, I think I'm seeing people start to try and like engage on that level in like a more direct and more meaningful way? Not always successfully. And I think, like, that's where some of that, like, cognitive dissonance comes in, but. When you brought up, like, you know, how like a selfie would get so much more likes than, like a substantive post about something that you actually care about or something that actually reflects like what's on your mind? To like think about it in a you know, I think, like the cynical way of thinking about it, is often correct and it's like, you know, people are willing to engage with something that doesn't challenge them. People are more willing to, like, throw a heart at something that, like, feels innocuous. But I also feel like people, at least for me, like when I'm scrolling through Instagram, I am primarily interested in things that like have substance. But like if someone posts a photo of themselves, like, it's a hard time right now and posting a photo of yourself is a vulnerable thing. And I want to throw a heart at that to show you that, like, I see that you're doing something that exposes you in some kind of a way, even if it is you just like, you know, putting up a mask. So I feel like, I think we're definitely as a species, as especially our generation, still like navigating how we do that in a way that isn't superficial. And like I said, like it's not always successful, but I think, like, there is there is a positive way that it can go and also to what you said earlier, Dana, about like. Human connection, suffering. And like, you know, engaging online versus engaging in person like it, just never being as good or the same, I slightly disagree just because, at least for me, like I said, I'm like an introvert and being around people is tough sometimes. There are things that I can say to people via text that like I would never say in person. Like there is a way for it to be something that actually adds depth. |
| Dana: Tina has her capitalism, I have my social media platform that I fucking hate, but social media actually throws part of its algorithm to show a lot of like superficiality and faces and human photos as opposed to, like, factual evidence. A lot of the times things that are your face are the ones that will gain the most traction and be placed in the algorithm to be seen the most. Just, just for you to know. Yeah. |
| Aja: But also, Tina, it was a very vulnerable. I mean, I think I said on this podcast, I sat there looking at that picture and that caption for like 15 minutes being like, why do I want to post this? |
| Dana: Also, you're beautiful. I liked looking at it. |
| Aja: Aw well thank you! |
| Lyonel: Tina, I think you bring up a really dope point. And I think like that in itself. Like I want to dive into that in the sense. It is vulnerable to stand in front of somebody and show up full and show up in a way where you're like. What I'm saying might crack how I feel on the inside and what I'm saying you are going to see transparently and wanting to either protect that for them or protect that for yourself. But I think that is what the gift of being present with people is that we are robbed of right now. Right? Like, there's so much liquid courage when you drink, but like there's so much like courage behind the keyboard right now, just across the board for anybody, because I can see in my head what I think your response is going to be like. I can put on your response, the energy that I need, and then I could counter that in the time that I need because it's not live. So I can, like, prep the message, I can shoot the message, I can reach, you know, and I think to what you're saying, there is something that is stripped of vulnerability and transparency when I can't tell people something in person that almost is like I think playing with our psyche. Like we're spending so much time alone creating narratives for other people. I don't know what this is going to look like on the other side when we're all out back with people because we have created characters, truly. Especially if you only text. |
| Dana: Do you think that it's needed it's needed for humans to have that type of vulnerability when speaking to another human? |
| Lyonel: I think it's a must. I think it's- like dating profile. I can't vulnerably show up if I if I'm not face to face with the person. It's weird to me, like I am creating your voice off of past men that I've dated or talked to you or friendships with men to try to figure out what kind of man you are, because I've never met you. So I need human connection in order to, like, know who you are. |
| Tina: That's why I don't do apps, is because I like cannot tell if I like a person off of that. Like, I need to be in a room with a person to know if like and I'll know within two seconds. |
| Aja: I don't I don't know, I guess in terms of pandemic and quarantine and not being able to see people, I will say. Actually, maybe this is jumping too far. |
| Lyonel: Jump! |
| Dana: Jump. Yeah, go for it. |
| Tina: No, do it. |
| Aja: (Shouting) Jump! Jump! Jump! |
| (Laughter) |
| Aja: But having to communicate with people digitally has actually made me connect with more people that I care about digitally, like integrating Zoom and, you know, Marco Polo and FaceTime and everything into my life for the people that I care about has actually made me be like, oh, well, here's this person that I haven't talked to because we don't ever see each other in person. But now that I am aware and used to using this software all the time to talk to people. It's like now that person is more accessible to me. So I will say in some ways that pandemic in regards to human connection has actually helped me reconnect with people. Which is something that I never would have thought it would do. |
| Dana: Yeah, same my life has slowed down. And because of that, because, like, normally I'm traveling and constantly moving and because of this, my life has actually slowed down to the point where I would I am relearning like. Yeah, exactly. Like connection but not in person, which is, Wild. |
| Lyonel: I wonder if y'all challenged you all think the connections are stronger with other people for you to, for the instance you just made, because you're having more time to connect to yourself? Like your life is slowing down? So you can realize that? |
| Dana: Yeah, I'm sure that I'm sure that's part of it. I'm sure that, like, I've been able to dive deep into myself. And I think that is a part of it, because you get to a point where you're, you know, you're talking to yourself about (Laughs) there's no one to talk to, so you talk to yourself about who who to just-. |
| Aja: I think thats just you Dana. |
| (Laughter) |
| Lyonel: Yeah, please don't speak for anyone else. |
| Aja: I never talk to myself. I've never talked to myself. That's not something I would do, thats. Weird. |
| Dana: My conversation is over. Awesome. (Laughter) But yeah, I think it's part of it. I think reconnecting to yourself leads to reconnecting to the people that you want to and. |
| Aja: I feel like I, oh, sorry go ahead |
| Dana: No, no, go ahead, I was done. |
| Aja: I feel like I've not slowed down for pandemic. I think my workload shifted and got more like I've been so busy the last, I mean seven months? Like so busy with work stuff that I actually feel like I have had less time to dive into myself and what- I've had the opposite opportunity I think, which is not a bad- I learned a lot about myself based on that level of like interaction that I'm required to have with my work, which is great. So I'm learning. I'm still learning a ton, but it's not the same kind of introspection. So I don't think that that. I don't really know how that all I know is now I talk to more people than I did on a regular basis. And that has to be, I mean, that is a direct result. And I maybe it's because other people have had time to be more introspective and like, decide they want to reach out or, you know, now that I have so little time, I want to be intentional with it. So I think it's a there's no telling, but I definitely know that my ability to connect with people digitally has grown during COVID times. |
| Dana: Yeah. Mm Hmm. |
| Aja: I feel like there's going to be someone who's listening who's like, wow, I haven't I haven't heard from you. SORRYYYYY! |
| Dana: Yeah, that's my fear, too!! Like, it's not it's no offense to anybody! |
| (Laughter) |
| Tina: This is a hard time for everybody right now, Like. |
| Lyonel: On a health level, because I do you know, I am a personal trainer. I am. I start a functional medicine course, by the way, y'all in less than a month. That's going to be like a certified nutritionist and functional health coach. |
| (Congratulatory sounds) |
| Lyonel: Which is, just really dope. But I've been diving into because I, in full transparency. I've done like two just follow up doctor visits just to like, you know, like check ups, make sure we're all good. I have high blood pressure. Yeah. Like one of the times I went I was like one forty and like it's been pretty high and in full transparency. Like I also feel like no one talks about that at our age. There's this weird need to appear unfazed. Being healthy means you're doing stuff right. And to have anything unhealthy means you're doing something wrong in this sense where it's like, you know what I mean ? There's so much-. |
| Dana: Shame. |
| Lyonel: Shame and stigma, right? But I have high blood pressure right now. But I mean, I, I work out all week long and everything. But what I what I've dived into and discovered is that. High blood pressure is the nervous system like blood cholesterol is food, but high blood pressure does with your nervous system. And I have so many friends, myself included, dealing with anxiety and like the state of sitting in so much anxiety and thinking about human connection and doing it alone and this idea that, like your own thoughts, there's no one to even sound board with. And the way that it's like presented in the way that I think about how Tina was like meeting people on a date and like, I like just having that rapport with someone. Ah, yeah. Just that connection. I think that. Something I think about with human connection is what we're losing, spending so much time alone and how people deal from anxiety, how that stemming into other parts of their actual health and then propagating that. |
| Dana: Yeah, I, uh, the thing that I think about that leads me to think that that human connection is suffering is the twenty second hug. And that's the thing that I truly. That- and also like when you're in a live theater audience, your heart can sync up with the audience? It's a rare thing that doesn't very doesn't happen very often, but it happens in theater, that type of shit. The twenty second hug is like something that releases some sort of hormone within you that makes you feel better. It's actually scientifically proven. Not sexual, just a connection that you can get from somebody else, just from having an a long hug with them. It's that type of stuff that I think helps that we just don't like, helps with your anxiety. Helps with like. A whole slew of shit that that's what that makes me think of Lyonel, is being in isolation and those types of things that you normally can get, you're not getting. |
| Lyonel: Like if somebody held my hand for 30 seconds right now, I'd have an orgasm. |
| (Uproar of laughter) |
| Lyonel: That's the kind of connection I'm talking about. |
| Dana: Oh, yeah. Just one finger touching my shoulder or. |
| Lyonel: Yeah. Just reaching for me for 30 seconds |
| Dana: EYE CONTACT. |
| (Laughter) |
| Aja: ME-OW! |
| Lyonel: Seeing someone's teeth at the same time they can see my teeth. And knowing we're both vaccinated is a world in which I want to live in. |
| (Laughter) |
| Aja: Oh my god. |
| Lyonel: It's a man which I need. A vaccinated- |
| Tina: (Laughing) Someone's teeth! |
| Lyonel: The teeth in me see the teeth in you. |
| (Outburst of laughter) |
| Aja: Oh my gosh!! |
| Tina: Thats romance babyee!! |
| Aja: Thats Romance! |
| Dana: And I wonder what the kinks will be after all of this. |
| Collective: Oh my God. |
| Dana: His cheeks! Did you see his cheeks?! |
| Lyonel: I could see the Moderna in his cheeks like I could see the vaccine. |
| Aja: It's like the welt from the vaccine is now a turn-on. |
| (Laughter) |
| Aja: It's like a baseball bruise and you're like, "Oh, shit. Give me some of that!". |
| Lyonel: I'm laughing. But I'm not JK'ing. |
| Aja: Nooo. Well, yeah. I mean, I texted you all, I think, a couple of days ago just thinking the idea of hugging my friend, any one of you or like any one of my close friends like it. It brought actual tears to my eyes to think about hugging someone that I love that I haven't seen. Just and I wonder, you know, I wonder if that is. As actors, you know, we're used to being around people all the time, you know, wherein, yeah, like hugging and touching is not only, you know, I mean, obviously consensually, but not only the norm, but it's required of us for our job. |
| Tina: And emotional vulnerability. |
| Aja: Yes. And I wonder if that is the same for other people that aren't artists or actors. |
| Tina: I mean, I got to say like that, you know, remember, like, I don't know if y'all ever did this, but like. |
| Aja: No. |
| (Laugher) |
| Tina: My friends in college and I would like, you know, do the hypothetical game of like, how long do you think you can go without, like, the touch of another human person ? Like, I was like, I don't know, two days? But like now it's been months. And I'm like, still fine, you know? I'm learning about myself that, like, I think I'm more resilient than I give myself credit for. And I think, like, a lot of us are going to come out of this, hopefully, with that sense of resilience and knowing what we actually need to, like, feel OK and to help deal with our anxieties. But also like that, that is something that I didn't expect to learn about myself because I was like, yeah, we're like artists. I'm used to being around people all the time. I'm used to like hugging and like sharing space and like sharing emotions on stage and not doing that is like. |
| Aja: Oh, and playing music. To be in a room of people playing music, playing instruments together ah shit. This is going down. |
| Lyonel: I feel like that is-. |
| Dana: This is going down. |
| Lyonel: (Singing) I'm yelling timbahhhhh!! |
| (Laughter) |
| Lyonel: Tina, I feel like you nailed it for me just now like if I had to like that is it. I think the good. The bad. The ugly like. Social distance right now is like the cause and effect of resiliency in humanity, is really what I'm learning. And this idea that, like humanity is not and human connection is not a landing point, but it's just something to observe. And like right now, we're just observing it like how resilient we have to be in the ways at which we're doing that as opposed to that humanity is this or human connection is this. This is like, wow, it's like a tree. |
| Tina: Yeah. Because sometimes like I mean, at least now like, you know, wearing a mask and keeping your distance from me is the number one way that you can show me that you care about me. So like if I'm passing you on the street and you aren't wearing a mask or you're like walking real close to me like that is technically a human connection. But that's like that-. |
| Dana: The opposite. |
| Tina: You know, I'm going to walk the fuck away. Like right now, the one of the primary ways of having a connection with another human is to show them the respect of you keeping your distance. Which, you know, I don't know what that's going to translate to in the future, but I think that is something that, like is missing a lot. It's like I can see that you need space right now. And that's how I'm going to connect with you, is to give you that space. |
| Dana: Yeah, Boundaries. That's a huge conversation that I've had with people, too, is our lack of ability to express boundaries and how this has also been kind of a conversation about that and how. Cause now it affects our physical health if you don't express your your boundaries. It's putting your physical health where previous to this, it really is just about emotional boundaries and like telling somebody you need space and all of these things that I think we just don't express simply out of, like fearing that we're going to chase our friendships away. And I think being forced to express physical boundaries now has made me think a lot about emotional boundaries. And how can I, you know, like, I'm trying to live my life better about thinking about what other people's boundaries are and telling people what mine are. That's also a big thing to you. |
| Tina: What do you see as as kind of. Well, how this time of isolation will impact us both for bad and good in the long run in terms of how we connect? |
| Dana; I think you're right in terms of resiliency, like truly, I think we're going to look back and think about our strength here. That's my first thought. |
| Lyonel: I 100 percent noticed a respect for my roommate the minute I spent the first nine months alone, like. And barely had a pot, and I think the minute that I moved in with her, my new roommate now, in January, I noticed a need to connect with her instantly. And I just appreciated the space that she took up because I was without it for so long that. I realize how much I'd taken for granted, human connection, and that's not to say that I didn't respect people, I don't respect friends or like, but I instantly knew what I needed from another human being on a very kinetic, very energetic, very like tangible way of being free with another human. Like not even like we can go to the park. I'm talking like we can make dinner together. So jumping into that, I think that's something I definitely noticed isolation versus with the person. |
| Aja: I might not be answering the question correctly, but but sparked for me is that like as someone who pre-COVID would find any excuse not to go be around people. Like I'm going to go see so many fucking people, I'm going to hug so many people. I'm going to be delighted to be in the presence of other people and or even just to have the option of that, you know? Like, I'm pretty introverted and I think I've said before, Josh, like, it's astonishing to Josh how I could never speak to anyone for like a week and be completely fine. Like, not leave the house, walk the dogs being the only time I go outside. But I feel like the moments that I've had where I desperately miss being in a room of people that I love like, that's not taking that for granted going forward. And I'm sure at some point I will. We all will because we'll go back to like normal. And then. But I'd like to think that I will try my best to hang on to the fact that that wasn't my reality for so long and that every moment with people is a gift. |
| Lyonel: Hmm. |
| Dana: Yeah. Well, now it's on a podcast, so. |
| Tina: Yeah. |
| Aja: Ac-coun-ta-bility!! |
| Dana: I think- I keep making this joke that I'll actually go out to a club. |
| (Laughter) |
| Dana: I mean I'll go out- |
| Aja: What are you talking about?? |
| Dana: Well, I'll probably come home at like 10:30, but I still think I'm gonna do it. Like the roaring 20s, right? Where they talked about- we keep talking about how that's going to like I think that'll come back full force just to be able to relish in conversations like this in person and all that type of shit. |
| Tina: I mean, I think this has put a lot of priorities in perspective for a lot of people, you know, like personally, like what I actually need to be happy is much clearer because I, you know, like it's so much harder to access all of it that like things you take for granted. Some of them, like you realize you can live without and some of them you realize you can't. And now like knowing that moving forward, I think, at least for me, I hope will be helpful because it'll allow me to be more resourceful and more resilient and, like, take care of myself better. But I think, like, I'm hoping just trying to think of like any of the positives that can come out of this. Otherwise I would like, lose my mind, you know. Hoping that people emerge from this with a better idea of what it takes to take care of themselves and what they need as individuals, but also what it takes to take care of each other. And I don't know what that will look like necessarily, but I mean, a girl's got a dream. |
| Dana: Yeah, Yeah. |
| Aja: Truly. |
| Tina: I don't know that I trust, like this country as a whole to learn from past mistakes because we've proved time and time again that we don't. But. |
| Aja: Well, this country and humanity in general. |
| Tina: Yeah, true. |
| Dana: Yeah. |
| Aja: Based on our episode plane. |
| Tina: Yeah. (Singing) Maybe this time- |
| (Laughter) |
| Aja: (Also Singing) Nothing will change! |
| (Laughter) |
| Aja: Well, great. Good job, everyone! BYE!! Dana's patting herself on the back. |
| Dana: Action item for this week? |
| Aja: Put your phone away while you watch things! |
| Tina: Or and, yes, we'll also offer my family and I do this every week, I do this with friends sometimes. But like pressing play on something at the same time and like chatting through that, is a way to have, you know, like it does involve having your phone open. But if you only use it for that, I have been really enjoying, like kind of having the communal watching experience in a different fun way. |
| Dana: Yeah, yeah. I guess just think about your relationship with your phone and you know. |
| Aja: Versus human connection. |
| Dana: Yeah. Versus human connection. Yeah. |
| Tina: The phone is not a substitute for a person, but it is a way for you to reach more people if you want to. |
| Aja and Dana: Yeah!! That part. |
| Tina: Should we add a little tag about how people should rate, review and subscribe to this podcast? |
| (Laughter) |
| Tina: Yeah, maybe that's it. Maybe it's just me asking that question. |
| Aja: Let us know what you think. Your reviews will help us get more visibility and we want to be able to keep doing this and spreading. Nope. This is terrible. Cut it. Somebody else- |
| Tina: I love it. I'm keeping all of this nonsense in. This is us. Deal with it. |
| Aja: AHAHA! |
| Dana: Love us! Tell us how much you love us! |
| Aja: And tell other people! You know, we were talking about earlier that some people had reached out and let us know that they were enjoying the podcast. And it is BEYOND helpful for us to hear that people are actually getting value out of it because, you know, it's just the four of us in our little vacuum being like hope this helps. |
| Dana:: And I will say this has been such an incredible way of communicating and connecting in all of this, and it has been a lifesaver. So I hope that it has been a lifesaver for other people as well in the midst of not being able to communicate as freely as we are right now. |
| Lyonel: All right. Everybody, well thank you so much for tuning in! We are "We The People" where we like to keep it fresh, funky and always unfiltered. And if you like what you hear, be sure to write a review! Till next time. |
| (Various Pew/Bam noises) |
| Lyonel: (Coughs) |
| Dana: (Laughs) I thought you were laughing, sorry, I didn't know you're choking. I wouldn't have laughed if I- |
| (Laughter) |
| Dana: My loneliness. It's fine. You can laugh. |
| Lyonel: Tina, you took my breath away, Dana. I can't call you if I'm dying because you'll laugh at me on the pjone. |
| Dana: (Laughing) No, no, no, no. |
| Lyonel: I would call you when I was dying. Just so you know. |
| Dana: You can! You can. |