Join us as we figure out what exactly this podcast is and why it's important to share now. This week, we're talking empathy, accountability, growth, and action in the ongoing fight to dismantle and reimagine oppressive systems.
Join us as we figure out what exactly this podcast is and why it's important to share now. This week, we're talking empathy, accountability, growth, and action in the ongoing fight to dismantle and reimagine oppressive systems.
Episode content warnings: mention of ableist and racist slurs
Follow us on instagram @wethepeoplepresent
Resources and action items on our Linktree
Cover artwork by Be Boggs
Music by Malaventura
Full transcript available HERE
Tina: We the People take this moment to recognize the fact that we are recording from the occupied territory of the Odawa, Ojibwe, and Potawatomi people, for those of us in the city colonially known as Chicago, and the Chumash, Kizh, and Tataviam people, for those in what is colonially referred to as LA. We ask that you take this time to look up whose lands you currently occupy, learn their history, and take meaningful action to decolonize and restore those lands to their rightful stewards, and to support, uplift, and fight for Indigenous communities. Action items and resources can be found in the link tree on our instagram: @wethepeoplepresent
[Triumphant-sounding upbeat horn and string music]
Dana: ‘Eyyyy this is the We the People Podcast. The very first episode which is super, super special. My name is Dana Saleh Omar. I am an actor, musician, activist from the city of Chicago and my pronouns are she/her/hers. Aja?
Aja: Hellooo! I’m Aja Wiltshire and I am also an actor, musician, activist, and I live in LA. Tina?
Tina: Hi I’m Tina Muñoz Pandya. She/her/hers. I am from Washington DC but I live in the city of Chicago and I’m an actor, musician, teacher, activist and, uh...all around...jerk.
[group laughing]
Tina: I’m gonna cut this so that will be gone.
Dana: No, keep it!
[group laughing]
Tina: Lyonel!
Lyonel: Hey everyone, this is Lyonel Reneau. My pronouns are he/him/his. If Tina cuts it, she definitely also said she was a jerk, so I just want to make sure it got put back in.
[group laughing]
Tina: Damnit
Lyonel: I live in Chicago. I’m originally from Houston TX, but I’ve lived all over the world, like NY and LA, and I am an artist, an actor, an athlete, and an activist- which means I like to talk about a lot of shit and I’m really emotional. But I also talk about a lot of shit. Yeah. Excited.
Tina: [sings] Welcome to the podcaaaaast!
Lyonel: Heyyooo. Aja, I think you forgot to say your pronouns.
Aja: Ahhh shit. She/her/hers.
[group laughing]
Dana: Got it!
Lyonel: Let’s just start it off, like what is this podcast? Tina- why don’t you start, what is this podcast?
Tina: Well I guess it’s important to know where the idea for the podcast came from, which is that originally Aja and Dana held a fundraising variety event after the 2016 election, kind of in response to that nightmare, that focused on raising money for organizations that helped immigrants and refugees.
And we kind of revived- they brought me on this year…was that this year? Oh my goodness...this year to do a virtual event to uplift and center the voices of Black artists. And Lyonel hosted the event.
So all four of us came together and [we] have important stuff to say and we all come from different perspectives and vastly different places- in our lives and in the world. But generally just have conversations that are full of love and understanding. And we wanted to share the way that we, you know, are able to engage with each other- in the hopes that we can maybe be a model for how people can have conversations about antiracism and how we can hold each other accountable to dobe better. That was a very long answer….Dana?
Dana: I love it I love it
Lyonel: It was good though!
Dana: Yeah! Aja and I, like Tina said, started this variety show and then it grew. And it has become this awesome beast that is encompassing- kind of uplifting marginalized voices, including ourselves, and bringing to the table a way to speak to one another that is respectful, but also brings a learning environment. Learning for us and also an educational environment for the people that listen to us, too.
Because what we want this to be is unfiltered. And we want to learn and we want other people to learn, too. I think there is a massive lack of empathy and understanding from both sides - from ALL sides - right now. And I think there are a lot of factors that have contributed to that.
But what this, for me, is actively trying to do is combat that. Is to bring empathy back to the table and combat divisive ways of speaking to one another. Um. Yeah. Aja?
Aja: This podcast…
We the People Present: A Podcast.
Is...what is this podcast?
This podcast is a lot of things, and some of those things are…
[group laughing]
I think it’s an ongoing conversation about current events- and how they affect us, and the people that look like us, and the people who are othered, and quieted, and pushed aside, and marginalized. It’s an exploration of our personal experiences as it stands with what’s happening in the world in the world right now, specifically the upcoming election. It’s a way for us to learn from each other and create examples of how - HOPEFULLY - how we can talk to each other about things that are happening even if we disagree on things, or if we don’t understand. I hope that it’s going to be an example of learning, and growth, and respect, and love for the people around us.
Lyonel: Yeah. I love that. I definitely think there will be other ways we dive into this, but I just think, to agree with everything y’all have said, this podcast is a space for an ongoing conversation, like…
This is the classroom. This is that class in school that we all took that we couldn’t wait to get to because it was that one teacher that allowed us to actually speak- that one teacher that allowed us to be seen. I just don’t think that there’s room in the world right now for anything other than “instant’. Which is dope in some ways- like instant: send something and it happens in the moment. But I think that has taught us not to be patient. And this podcast will hopefully give breath to that, like what does it mean to have your own lens, and have to take a step back and take in other people along the journey. And what does it look like for them? So what is this podcast? It’s an ongoing classroom of experiences. Some dope, some hard, some crazy, some wild, and like...that’s dope. So for me, that’s what this is turning into.
Tina: Yeah. And I will say, too, that just because... the idea for this podcast started off as kind of a different thing than it’s turned into, I guess? You know, there’s obviously room for growth, and I think we’ll be learning a lot as we do this and we hope that the people who are listening will as well.
But we know that the four of us- even though we have drastically different experiences and come from a lot of different places- we don’t know everything. So we want to make an effort to talk to other folks and have conversations about really specific things that we may not have, necessarily, a lot of answers on. So having guests on is something that we’re really excited about- to engage in conversations with other folks, too.
And in the spirit of...god I’m such a jerk. (I’ve said it again, it’s gonna stay.)- in the spirit of engaging in conversations right off the bat, something you said, Dana, really struck me about empathy. I 100% agree that empathy feels like an afterthought right now in a lot of the conversations that are going on.
But I also, for me, I think it’s important to distinguish between having empathy for folks who are disenfranchised when you don’t related to that experiences, when you come from a place of privilege, vs having empathy for a group of people who refuse to recognize your humanity and that continually marginalize and harm you.
So while I will say, yes there is a lack of empathy in our conversations, there is an imbalance in where empathy is due as well. And the kind of empathy that we’re demanding of people- there’s empathy for your oppressor, and then empathy for the people whose humanity you’ve refused to acknowledge. And I just think it’s important to say that.
Lyonel. Mm.
Dana: Yeah. Totally.
Lyonel: Can I ask really quick: would you say that that puts in a barrier, or a level of...I guess what I'm asking is: what is the distinction between, “I have empathy for this thing” or...I’m asking someone to feel sorry for me? I feel like sometimes empathy is a conversation of...like if we all think that we’re right, then therefore it doesn’t leave room for us to be understanding…
I guess what is the difference between empathy and understanding? And how those vary when people are like...when you don’t understand somebody or you don’t understand where they’re coming from? How do you mend that kind of conversation with someone? And is it empathy on the table when that happens?
I’m thinking for example, like let’s be specific, I say this all the time: I think that...cancel culture is a bi-product of privilege. Because the only people that can “cancel” are removed something out their life and it coexist are people with privilege and people of privilege, because everyone else that doesn’t have that opp has to live with whatever it is that is trying to oppress them. And in doing so create collaboration in that, and so there is a part of you that always has to look for a part behind the hatred, or a part behind the dismissal, in order to build the bridge.
So I guess I’m curious on...what does that look like: not having empathy for people that do at the same time, are oppressed? I don’t think it’s “I love you”, but what is the collaboration, or what is the connection - how do you build the bridge? Cause if not, is it just that we create tribes?
I don’t know, that was a big question - but your point made me think about that. Is empathy solely love? Or is empathy solely emotional - in terms of warmth? Or is empathy a conversation of like...seeing self in self, even the ugly parts and figuring out why that person sees something so ugly?
Or is like “fuck them” and move on. I don't know, I’m just asking.
Dana: I think that the quick distinction is that what we are doing here is not to try and mend the huge political gap that’s happening right now. Our goal here is not trying to instill empathy for people - if that happens, great - but for people who are actively trying to hurt us in various ways. I don’t think right now our energy...to be honest I think our energy is wasted there. I don't think that trying to find somebody that hates Arabs and have a conversation with them right now is the best thing for us. And I think it wears on us, for sure.
So your bigger question… I don’t know.
And for me, when I think about empathy, I think about the psychological decline of empathy across the board and the rise of ego. So that’s how I’m thinking about it. I’m thinking about psychologically. And that has to do with social media and all these other factors- but that’s how I can put it all under one umbrella, if that makes sense? So empathy declines, ego is on the rise.
And what I think this [podcast] does is hopefully take the people that are willing to listen - that are willing to hear what we have to say - and maybe think outside of their own box, and start to feel a little more empathy. That they even had that capacity in the first place.
Aja: Well I think...I agree that it is harmful for us to try to have conversations with people who are clearly refusing to examine their own experience or acknowledge that something is happening that they don’t understand because of the color of their skin. I think it can be harmful for people of color- BIPOC - to try to endure that.
But I think there can be empathy - and I might be missing the question, I don’t know - I think there’s another conversation about empathy for people who are actually trying to learn and trying to understand. I think that’s a good place to potentially…
I don’t know, because I’m also like… “who fucking cares, get with it”...but if I know someone, I do know some people who are coming to grips with what’s happening. And while I want to be very short, and like, “get over it. deal with it. get on board or get out of my life”, I still have to have empathy- or I CAN have empathy for the fact that their whole world view is shifting. Everything they thought that they knew, everything that they thought was just fine, is now crumbling and they’re now having come to grips with the fact that not only is the system fucked, they’ve been benefiting, and working in, and not recognizing that the system is fucked.
So I think that there can be empathy there.
Dana: Agree
Aja: And it’s something that I’m always consciously trying to remember myself.
Lyonel: You just said that...your answer and your question took 30 seconds. Mine took 3 minutes.
[group laughing]
Lyonel: No, but I think that’s the nectar of what I’m saying too, and the idea of it is- obviously there’s far one side and far the other side - but it’s such an interesting grey zone to that same point, of what does empathy look like against implicit bias - or just systemic bias? And like...is that love? To try to wait for someone that you’re like “take veil off and let’s get on board”? Or …. what is that? So I’m excited for the exploration of what that is. ’Cause both sides see it as judgment. Or both sides see it as “get with it”, so where’s the collaboration of that. Again, playing in the field of not far right / far left. So I’m interested in what we dive into with that.
Tina: One thing that I find helpful for myself is...because I think, Lyonel, you’re so right - is the answer that we just kind of separate into factions? Or…
What you said about love is so interesting to me, because the way I think about empathy is not in terms of love. It’s in terms of relating, and understanding where someone might be coming from, or what someone might be experiencing. And that doesn’t necessarily have to be an action of love - it’s an action of openness, and of willingness to try to understand.
And for me, I feel like marginalized folks are - an understanding of what white folks and what straight cis folks go through is engrained in our education, it’s engrained in the media we consume - so the empathy for that experience is part of what we’re taught from like...the day we’re born. So I have to remember that for myself, that I don’t have to go out of my way to feel empathy for that experience, because that experience is what I'm told is “normal”, and my own experience that I’ve lived is what I’m told is an outlier- is different.
I guess I’m just less interested, that’s not the right world, but that’s the only word I have right now, in the conversation of how do marginalized folks reach out, when all we do is reach out. Because that’s how we achieve power, that’s how we achieve stability, that’s how we achieve safety in this society- is by reaching out to that experience, vs that experience reaching to us and allowing us, I mean upward mobility, at its simplest.
But then, Aja, what you said…
God, I have the longest answers in the universe...I like to talk, welcome to the podcast.
Aja: You’re perfect
Tina: Um...understanding people’s journey, and understanding that people like me, time to grapple with the fact that, yeah their whole worldview is changing. And I find it really helpful to articulate when I do have conversation with folks who are maybe not where I’d like them to be in the conversation, is to say, “I have the time and energy right now to engage in this conversation with you, but I do need you to understand that this is not my job. This is not my responsibility. And that moving forward, I’m saying this now so that you will take this information and move forward understanding this and I won’t have to repeat myself.”
Because that, for me, is the most wearing work; when I do put the time and energy into explaining something to someone, and they don’t integrate that into their journey or into their understanding.
So I find it helpful to use direct language like that, and if you need to say, “this is not coming from a place of anger or hatred, this is just me telling you that I do this work silently all the time, and I want you to see that other people are doing this work and not telling you, and that it is wearing on them.” then, yeah.
Aja: And having conversations like that is kind of one of the reasons we decided to move forward with this podcast. So for if everyone wants to chat about why this podcast, and why now...
Lyonel: It’s a call to action. I think there’s so much, right now, waiting for the perfect moment, or waiting for the perfect thing. Which, there’s just, frankly, no perfect fucking moment. So you just have to be able to pull the bandaid off and have the conversations.
I also think that there’s so much attack on people who want to try to figure out conversations. We mentioned earlier today the idea of, “I don’t have to take care of anyone”, but I do think that there are no spaces anymore for people to have conversations...and be like, “can I say this like this, or can I not say this like this”?”. And not in the way of like, “train me”, but in a way of...how do we just have authentic conversations without issues and problems- without feeling like I”m gonna be cancelled, or without feeling like I’m gonna be drug. And instead of magnifying everyone around our circle...
I get so frustrated because I feel like people close to my life, it’s this narrative that everyone around is dumb, or everyone around them is like, not trying, right? They’re always like “do the work”, but it’s like... who are you telling to do the work? I think more people than we think are actually doing the work. It’s that people don’t have...just the forward gall to just...do it, and implement it, and stick up and be brave. So I think if anything, this podcast has to happen. Enough people need to figure out they have to be brave enough. And it’s also about representation.
Really small, small story- I have a 15 year old niece and I love her so much, and I was telling her about gay marriagne and she was like, “it’s cool. You’re gonna get married. Trans people barely have rights”. And for me, it was so big when Barrack Obama won because it was my first time seeing a black president. She’s 15 and her hero was a black man from the minute she entered this world. So I think...there’s a bravery that doesn’t happen as active as we think, because we don’t see the people that look like us being brave.
So I think this podcast is also important because it’s not just about being marginalized, but it’s about standing on who you are and just speaking on things honestly and firmly. Fuck it! Let’s do it!
Aja: Yeah!
Dana: I love that!!
Tina: That’s amazing
Dana: Yeah that sound clip…
Tina: That’s the clip.
(laughing)
Dana: That’s the MONEY!!
Lyonel: ROLL IT! ROLL IT!
Dana: Cash money.
Lyonel: ____, ___ honey!
(laughing)
Tina: Dana?
Dana: I have to follow that.
Aja: Have fun!
Dana: I think I agree with everything Lyonel just said totally a thousand percent. I also think we spent so much of our lives online on the internet on social media- we check that shit, sometimes 30, 40 times a day - and I think it...there are pros, but the severe negative cons are that we don’t listen as well anymore.
And this came from one of my favorite shows, I May Destroy You, just recently where she’s talking to her therapist, and her therapist says, “you know those platforms, they benefit off of speaking over listening”.
And I think that has kinda wormed its way into our heads. And it is also a platform where you say this thing, and it could be an incredible thing, but it also confirms the bias in your head, and it also makes you less open to other people's ideas. And this has only gotten worse during the pandemic, right? We’ve all just been stuck inside looking at social media all day, every day. We can’t even just speak to anybody, for the most part. At least in the beginning we weren’t able to talk to anybody in person. So it’s just like...you’re sitting there over and over, watching people say things and not being able to have this constructive conversation.
So for me, the biggest thing that, along with cancel culture, which is what Lyonel was talking about, along with that what I crave is the type of symposiums that we had in college. Or how we could just talk and kind of bounce off of each other's ideas. And if there was an idea in class that you didn’t agree with, that’s fine. That’s not a big deal. And I feel like now, it’s just been like...there’s just such a reactive thing...especially on mine - and then that transfers to our real life, right? You know, you do that online all on and then you just start speaking that way in real life, and you don’t wanna listen to anybody else.
Lyonel: On that point though, it feels exactly like that. It feels like conversations right now- even, it’s called a presidential RACE, right? - every conversation right now feels like it’s a race. It’s like...How can I beat you? How can I go longer than you? How can I do something and I win? It’s like we’ve moved from a fish tank, we’re all in this tank, there’s really no entrance, no exit, except the top, if we’re thinking about a fish tank, but the point is... it’s just a room. It’s just a vessel, and we’re just moving freely in it. No one’s above or beyond. But everything is about the race. Did I put my black box up FIRST? Did I incorporate this FIRST?
No one's above or beyond but everything is about THE RACE. Like did I put my black box up FIRST? Did I incorporate this FIRST? And it's just...everything is a race, you know?
Dana: 1000%
Lyonel: And so we’re racing To your point it's like there is no room for a tank and just people in it bouncing off ideas.
Dana: Yes. A thousand percent. And that race, sorry to get on this social media thing- get used to this listeners, this is all I’m gonna talk about- to your point, that is ingrained in our heads because we want those little hearts again. We want like, this dopamine fix.
So it's like you're being rewarded for speaking, and you're being rewarded for doing these things the first time, so that's all that you're caring about right now. And your listening skills are kind of, not completely- I'm speaking in huge black and white terms and I don't exactly think that way- but your listening skills are starting to deplete simply because all you're caring about is speaking, and saying the thing, and you were the FIRST one to say it. So yeah.
Tina: I'll go. I’m gonna try and keep this short but we know how well that's gone in the past.
So I love this question in general of like, “why this, why now?”. Because, I mean, we're all we're all performers - we're all in “THE THEATRE”.
(laughing)
Tina: And that’s a question that I think artists and theater practitioners in particular need to be asking themselves more, and should be asking: why are we doing this play and why is it important that we tell this story NOW? As opposed to “we want to do Arthur Miller again” and I hate Arthur Miller. Let's not start that conversation because I've already been talking longer than I wanted to.
(laughing)
So. That's the sphere I'm in - is the arts so I feel like artists need to be asking themselves that, and everyone needs to be asking themselves why am I saying this? And why am I saying this now? And I think this gets back to what Dana was saying of like, leaving room to hear, and like Lyonel was saying: not to have to be the first one to say this thing, not to have to have the better take or the most nit-picky opinion on something. I think there is room for that, and I do think that information needs to be out there- because it for me when I see something that exposes something I may not have considered or it calls into question my beliefs or biases that I may have held that may have harmed someone, I get defensive and then I have to be like, “no Tina, this is an important thing to incorporate into your thinking”.
But then when we do speak I feel like we need to be asking ourselves, “why is what I'm saying important to say in this moment”. And do I need to say it? Or is that taking away from momentum- is that taking away from the actual helpfulness of this discussion? How is what I'm saying actually contributing to an impact as opposed to showing that I am smart or that I think in this way that you may not have considered. What is it doing?
I think it's important for us to model that kind of conversation now at this moment when a lot feels really hopeless- god I've been talking for so long.
(laughing)
Lyonel: Can I say something- it might not piggy back off that, but I want to say it because that's something about “why this podcast, why now”. I also think that there is- sometimes I think we talk about marginalized groups, it's always this idea of what “woe is them”, or like “let's help them”, like that they're like needing something, but I think a lot of times there is a comfort and a disrespect that I think walk hand-in-hand.
Perfect example yesterday I was with a friend, we were watching The Craft- which if you haven't seen it it's so good. I haven’t seen in years, it was so good- but we were watching it outside and some of the jokes just don't track the same way. And there's a specific part in the movie where the biracial girl who's in it, her hair, which is natural, there's another character who makes a reference to her hair, or her hairbrush, she's like, “ew my brush has pubic hair in it.” And she's like “Oh my God. Never mind that such-and-such’s hair” and the black girl hears her and she comes around and she's like, “Why do you hate me so much?”. And she says, “I just don't like negroids” and makes this joke... like ooooh that doesn't track.
So pause that, we end up seeing another friend outside, and it starts to rain and we’re like you know what. Let's go inside. So we go inside this open space in this huge building, we were able to spread out six feet apart, CDC don't come for us, we're standing apart, wear a mask always.
And that friend had another friend who was in the lobby at the same time and was like, “hey come over and meet”. And so all four of us are sitting there just chit chatting, skipping ahead to the point of the story, we were talking about how things don't track anymore, and this specific person- the person that was already in the lobby- he was like, “oh you know what, I was talking to some of the other day and they really made me annoyed because they were using the R word when responding to someone.” And I looked to my friend and was like, [whispers] “what’s the R word?” and they mouthed to me they were like- excuse me everybody- but they were like “retarded”.
And I was like, “Oh, oh, got it, I just didn't realize that's what the R word was, but I agree let's not use it.” But there was such a sensitivity, right, with him being like an R-word, R-word and disability, and I was like, “great!” And then I made reference to The Craft, maybe like three minutes later, and this specific person went, “oh I mean she didn't say ‘nigger’. She said ‘negroids’.” I don't know this human being, I've never met this boy before. Today was day one.
And the comfort of speaking to someone in a marginalized group with a reference that has been used to marginalize them is something that I find very frequent in people who are not marginalized. It's the idea of because we have come over, or because I am not racist or I am not implicitly biased, there is a comfort with me being comfortable with you. So I also think this podcast speaks to that, which is the idea of like you can 100% see someone as equal, but you cannot dismiss a comfort, or you can not fall into a role of comfort with them that is still using things that are harmful to them.
So I think this podcast is also those examples and those experiences. That's it. I bow out.
Dana: Thanks for sharing.
Aja: Yeah, thanks Lyonel. Just don't. ever. use. that. word.
Tina: Don’t use that word!
Dana: Don’t use that word. Ever ever ever.
Lyonel: But it's also- my bigger point is like that is- to tie that in again- that is the empathy thing, right? At least in my brain, it's like, we're also having this conversation because there are those people who do not realize that because you’re not oscillating in a world at which you are racist, or you are privileged, or you're trying to act on your privilege, not clocking your own comfort, or your own ability to know something about a group of people, and use it unintentionally- but using it freely, you know? I think it all comes together.
And I did need to share that story because it takes nothing from me, but everything from the mirror. I'm like, “What are you doing to actually see people” versus like “I'm better because I don't use this word”. Those are two different types of people.
Aja: Yeah. And, I guess, piggy backing off of both of what you were saying: We’re already having these conversations. We are a group of people who are planning events, and working on being better activists together, we were already having these conversations.
This isn't like, “hey you're smart and I'm smart. Maybe we should talk about it”. We were literally talking about it every week. We were talking about this in our team meetings, we were talking about this and planning events, we were talking about this in terms of like... we've just been talking about it. So why this? Because it's already happening. And why now. Because there's a fucking election coming and why not.
Like if anyone can listen to this podcast and gain some clarity on their own views, or understand another perspective, and if someone can refer another person to our podcast that helps clarify something that they had not thought about, they had not heard in this way, they had not heard an example of an empathetic conversation about things that they don't understand, then we have done our jobs. I mean we're not getting paid for this, so it's not a job.
But why this, why now? We were already having the conversations, and various impacts to be made, and if we can be part of that we want to be part of it.
Dana: Right. I mean this stuff is ingrained in every single fucking thing in this country. So the nuances of where it comes up and why it comes up, and the level of experience that people have with, you know, battling their own antiracism and accepting things- it's everywhere. Right?
So it's not just like these two, far-left or far-right public freakouts that you see, it's everything in between. For sure.
Tina: Sweet. Well with that, I feel like it's always you know we in our events and on our social media try to incorporate action items into everything that we do.
So, like I was saying before, in what way can I use this to be helpful? In what way does this help drive us forward? I thought it would be nice to leave us on the note of all of us just kind of saying like, what's one way that y'all the listeners can take immediate action now to either combat your own biases, to do anti-racist work within yourself, or to do anti-racist work within your community, or you know of something larger scale. What's one thing that our listeners can do right now.
Aja: Look up what's happening in your local elections. Local government is so, so, so important and a lot of us have a lot of things coming on that November 3rd ticket, and the more you can advocate for what you want at a local level the better. So look up what bills, or laws, or local offices- A lot of senators. Senators. Flip the Senate- are happening so look up your local election. And text your friends and family especially in key net key states to do the same.
Lyonel: I think that the biggest thing between “performative” and “action” is because when you're performing there's a wait for something- there's a wait for something to be given to you.
So I think from here on out from hearing our podcasts, and motioning, I just challenge our listeners to do things that don't require them to receive anything back. Because I feel like a lot of the plug in our culture right now is like, “I feel performative,” or “someone called me performative,” and I think like those words are tossed out right now a little too freely because in a way everything is performative. Blank. Because we're in a culture where we want to see it.
So I think action is when you do something and there's really no room for you to wait for the response to feel gratitude from it right. So if it is, like we're saying, you know, “vote!” Vote. That's OK. That's an action, you know? Have an accountability group of people that you reach out to and like, you all have a set plan. That is an action. Know your senators. That is an action. Research racism, issues, items, injustices around you, like, that is an action. And hold people accountable around you to those same things you found.
But I think, like, really take time to decipher the difference between “performative” and action.
Dana: Absolutely, 1000 percent. And I think the easiest way is to really, like, look into yourself and ask what your intentions are. Because if you really really look deep enough you'll know if your intentions are fake or not. If you're looking for that dopamine fix or if you're really just looking to make a change. Totally I completely agree. I think two things that you can do:
You can either become a poll worker, so that has been, I know we're in the middle of a pandemic, so if you don't feel comfortable doing that, I do not blame you but if you feel the need or the want. We need poll workers. A lot of them. And another option that you can do, or another thing that you can do, you can actually write postcards to voters in swing states. I've done that before.
So if you would like to do that you can definitely do that. We heard on NPR that Chicago is still in need of 3000 poll workers for November's election. A lot of people. I just read today that over I think a million, something like that. There is an early voter record that we've already set. So the next couple of weeks are going to be insane.
So poll working and also, yeah sending out postcards to swing states are a couple of avenues that you can go with. The ACLU has done that before but I think if you just type in postcards or sending voter postcards something should pop up for you.
Tina: There are some resources on our link tree actually that that involve that as well.
Aja: Vote Forward. You can adopt voters that either don't usually vote or haven't voted even if they're registered but you just fill in their name and why you vote and then you send it out when they tell you to. Vote Forward’s a good one.
Tina: Well I mean yes like vote, call your Senators, phone bank, text bank, like do anything that you are willing or able or have the capacity to do to prevent this election from being catastrophic, but also engage, like the conversation feels a lot at least in my social media spheres (oh god) like feels like it's centered on the macro and on the election and on like that avenue of change.
But I think it's important to acknowledge too that like protests are still happening in a big way. Protesters still need support. If you are able to get out there and protest if that's the avenue that you choose to to fight, or offer protest support, offer jail support, find out what the need is in your community for donations of supplies.
Donations to bail funds, all of that is really really important because that work that has been happening in the streets right now has done more for our individual communities and for the national conversation than a lot of the institutional work has, so keep supporting protesters, keep being a protester if you can, and really look at your community and find out what the actual need is instead of just like donating to where you think like it sounds good for your money to go.
Like find out what places need supplies, do donation drives if you want and you can check out the link tree on our Instagram which is- what is our Instagram?
Aja: @wethepeoplepresent.
Tina: Oh God. Because it has a lot of resources about that on there as well. So just check out our Instagram for more information and more details about how you can engage and ways to be as helpful as possible.
Dana: And also if you're in Chicago and you have the means to donate, Good Kids Mad City they're out in the streets. They're doing incredible stuff all the time. And also My Hood My Block My City as well. So those are two in Chicago that I love and that I work with and yeah.
Aja: And if you haven't downloaded the app Goods Unite Us, GUU.
It's like an app that will tell you, it's a women-led organization that you can look up so many companies and see what kind of corporate donations they give. You can see if someone is a big supporter of a party or even a person that you don't want your money to go to. So it's a good way to see how you're voting, how you're currently voting with your dollars, because some of these big corporations donate like, like Kroger is one and they unfortunately have like Mariano's under their belt, sorry Chicago, but many corporations are donating somewhere that you don't want your dollars to go and if you don't know that your dollars are going there then you're accidentally voting for people that you don't want to be voting for.
Dana: Righ.t
Tina: Yeah. Unfortunately there is no ethical consumption under capitalism. But there is a way to be a little more impactful with the money that you do spend.
Aja: And it tells you if there are clean companies that don't vote or don't donate either way which is great.
Dana: What is that again, Aja?
Aja: Goods Unite Us. GUU. In the app store.
Dana: That's super helpful. I think that's a good place to wrap up.
Tina: Yeah.
Aja: Thanks for listening!
Dana: Yeah thanks so much for listening and we hope to have you come back and listen to us soon.
Tina: Oh God. How do we end?
Dana: Cut!
Lyonel: I thought we came up with a, remember one on one of our lists before we like had a little slogan thing?
Aja: Cut!
Lyonel: Hey everybody. Thank you all so much for tuning in. Again this is We the People present: A Podcast. Simply put it's unfiltered, it's fresh, and is right here for you. Have a good day. Bye.
Tina: That was so good.
[Music]
Lyonel: Y’all we also don't have any sponsors that can we all just smile really quick and laugh so that I can make something for the Instagram reel? Three, two, one: (laughter). This is really what you do when you don't have money. We're on the way up. Nice good team.
Tina: I'm keeping all of this in. This is gold.
Aja: God, thank God for editing y’all.